The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
[CD spoilers] Mother Winter, the Blackstaff, Death and the Raven Banner
Dust Bunny:
--- Quote from: KurtinStGeorge on December 07, 2012, 04:33:29 AM ---So it is highly likely Mother Winter's lost walking stick is now known as the Blackstaff. So what would Harry do if Eb were to die (In battle or murdered) and Harry picked up the staff. Would he accept the post of the new Blackstaff; assuming it was offered to him, or would he return Mother Winter's walking stick to her?
With the first option Harry gets to break all the laws of magic and do everything he despises without going insane. The second option puts the staff back in the hands of a being that thinks that Mab is too soft.
--- End quote ---
Good question. Indeed, that would be a sufficient hook to hang a secondary plot for one of the books.
123456789blaaa:
--- Quote from: Dust Bunny on December 07, 2012, 03:04:42 AM ---That is an extremely good question.
My guess (and it is just a guess) is that Kringle is a mask, not a mantle. If someone were to manage to kill Odin, then the mask of Kringle might become a Mantle, but as of right now, it's simply a mask.
--- End quote ---
I disagree.
The conversation in Ghost Story implies that Kringle is a mantle (IMO) plus we have this WoJ:
--- Quote ---Dudesan: You've described Santa Claus as being the Winter King. What does that title mean? Do Winter and Summer each have a trinity of Father/King/Prince, like they do with Mother/Queen/Lady? Is the King necessarily the consort of the Queen? If so, will we be seeing Oberon at some point?
Jim: 5) The Faerie realms just aren't that structured. It's more accurate to say that he is /a/ Winter King. Or even more accurately, that he is a free Wyld Fae who is of a power level that is on par with Mab's and happens to neighbor her sphere of influence, and finds it simpler to show up to family dinners during the holidays and make polite than to start staking out boundaries and establishing treaties.
Oberon... well, the guy kind of wound up between Mab and Titania in one of those romantic triangle things, back around Shakespeare's day. He didn't make it.
--- End quote ---
Which outright says that Kringle is a Faerie. Even taking into account WoJ trickyness, I think this is pretty clear.
Tangent: Mantles are an AMAZING idea. It basically solves the problem of having multiple redundant gods/beings and also the problem of beings that originate from other myths while still being flexible enough to not limit storytelling opportunities. Jim I salute you.
EDIT:
--- Quote from: Dust Bunny on December 07, 2012, 04:17:37 AM ---Hmmm ... is the complete oblivion of all non-mortals part of the goal of the Oblivion War? I thought they were only after the nasty things that preyed on humanity.
--- End quote ---
No, you're right.
Elegast:
--- Quote from: KurtinStGeorge on December 07, 2012, 04:33:29 AM ---So it is highly likely Mother Winter's lost walking stick is now known as the Blackstaff. So what would Harry do if Eb were to die (In battle or murdered) and Harry picked up the staff. Would he accept the post of the new Blackstaff; assuming it was offered to him, or would he return Mother Winter's walking stick to her?
With the first option Harry gets to break all the laws of magic and do everything he despises without going insane. The second option puts the staff back in the hands of a being that thinks that Mab is too soft.
--- End quote ---
He'll give it back to Mother Winter.
I think that during the BAT, we'll see Death, it's one the four riders after all .
Elegast:
Oh, I think I've solved the four sets of teeth problem:
--- Quote from: Summer Knight ---The place was all one room. The floor was wooden, though the boards looked weathe Red and dry. Shelves stood against the stone walls. A loom rested in the far corner, near the fireplace, a spinning wheel beside it. Before the fireplace sat a rocking chair, occupied, squeaking as it moved. A figure sat in it, shrouded in a shawl, a hood, as though someone had animated a bundle of blankets and cloth. On the hearth above the fireplace sat several sets of teeth, more or less human-sized. One looked simple enough, all white and even. The next was rotted-looking, with chipped incisors and a broken molar. The next set had all pointed teeth, stained with bits of rusty brown and what looked like rotten bits of flesh stuck between them. The last was made out of some kind of silvery metal, shining like a sword.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Revelation 6:7-8˄ NIV ---When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, "Come and see!" I looked and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine, and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
--- End quote ---
* iron teeth = sword
* rotted-looking = plague
* pointed teeth = wild beast
* simple enough, all white and even = famine
EDIT: those four are NOT the four riders, but the four ways Death can kill during the apocalypse according to the Bible.
Anthony:
--- Quote from: Elegast on December 06, 2012, 05:42:06 PM ---So what is Mother Winter true identity? What's particularly annoying is the 'our' name, meaning the name should fit for both mothers.
Several possibilities come to mind: Isis, some Indu or sumerian goddess, or even the WG. For me it's unlikely: Jim said he may not use indu deities, and I doubt that the mothers are mere deities. And there is absolutely nothing pointing to Isis for instance, or the WG. They seem to be force of nature (Mother Summer "it's not your" world), beyond good and evil:
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My Gueass: Frau Holle/Holda (some speculation suggest that the word Hell is derived from Frau Holle).
From wikipedia:
--- Quote ---In Germanic folklore as established by Jacob Grimm, Frau Holda or Holle is the supernatural matron of spinning, childbirth and domestic animals, and is also associated with winter, witches and the Wild Hunt. Her name is cognate with Scandinavian beings known as the Huldra and the völva Huld
(...)
While governing domestic chores, Holda is also strongly associated with the outside wilderness, wild animals and places remote from man. Frau Holda's festival is in the middle of winter, the time when humans retreat indoors from the cold;
--- End quote ---
She would fit.
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