The Dresden Files > DFRPG
Comments thread for "The Laws of Magic: Part 2 of 8"
iago:
--- Quote from: Douglas on June 15, 2007, 08:48:15 PM ---How would you advise treating an attempt to make an opponent easier to kill using magic?
--- End quote ---
Well, let's evaluate this question in the absence of specifics, first.
The way you phrase this, in *my* game, that's a violation of the First Law -- but I want to run a game where violations of the First Law are all too easy to make happen. If your game crew doesn't dig on that idea, there's nothing saying you have to run it *my* way.
That said, the devil's in the details...
--- Quote ---Example:
My friend's character, a witch named Sylvia Valois, and my character, a mortal named James Strand, are confronting a human villain named Phillip Burroughs. Burroughs is powerful, influential, and in league with a group of vampires, but is still a free-willed human being. He tries to call security when we burst into his office, but Sylvia pins him to the wall by projecting magical force. He starts to scream threats at us and James buries a fire-axe in his skull.
Would this violate the First Law?
--- End quote ---
Ahhh, I see what you mean. Well, Sylvia's intentions there weren't about killing him -- or were they? Does she agree with what James did? Did she keep that magical force going so she could make that easier -- or did it just happen to work out that way?
Remember, part (but not all) of the reason a First Law violation is a violation is because, in bringing up her magic, Sylvia intended a deadly result. That's half of it. If she didn't, then there's some wiggle room, and it becomes a "grey area" judgment call. If she did it so she could help James get his axe into Phil's head, well -- that's calling up magic with the intent to kill, now isn't it?
--- Quote ---Would it make a difference if Sylvia had acted alone and used an axe to kill Phillip after immobilizing him with magic? I think it might, since you had the example of using magic to knock someone off a building as a no-no even though the cause of death was mundane.
--- End quote ---
The way I'd play it, that'd make a difference, since it would show a certain unity between the purpose of the spell and its ultimate result.
Douglas:
--- Quote from: iago on June 15, 2007, 09:11:08 PM ---
Ahhh, I see what you mean. Well, Sylvia's intentions there weren't about killing him -- or were they? Does she agree with what James did? Did she keep that magical force going so she could make that easier -- or did it just happen to work out that way?
Remember, part (but not all) of the reason a First Law violation is a violation is because, in bringing up her magic, Sylvia intended a deadly result. That's half of it. If she didn't, then there's some wiggle room, and it becomes a "grey area" judgment call. If she did it so she could help James get his axe into Phil's head, well -- that's calling up magic with the intent to kill, now isn't it?
--- End quote ---
Ironically enough that was eseentially the other "would it make a difference" scenario I was thinking of adding to my original post. In the one I posted Sylvia and James both go in with the understanding that Burroughs has to die in order to save lives. James direct involvement in killing him was a means to avoid the wardens, Sylvia wouldn't have used magic to restrain Burroughs unless tried to call security or draw a gun. As things turned out Sylvia did end up using magic.
The other scenario is that they go in with the intention to interrogate Burroughs; Sylvia pins him to the wall and James gets all threatening with an axe and a pretty good intimidation skill. Problem is Burroughs starts spitting threats about the cops and what he's going to make happen to our Heroes' families and James...kinda loses it. Sylvia hadn't dropped the spell yet when James attacked Burroughs but she hadn't planned to kill him. Neither had James but I suppose that's what you get when one of your aspects is "Impulsive".
Though I suppose the Wardens might see things differently if they saw a crime-scene with signs of magic use and a blood splatter that required the corpse to be suspended against the wall several inches off the ground. So while that the last scenario might not be a spiritual violation of the laws it could still result in council-related entaglements.
Speaking of Wardens, I guess this means that they can't use magic to immobilize you while they kill you. Good to know.
iago:
Yep. As always, we're talking about two styles of violation here -- the ones that matter for your soul (and your character sheet), and the ones that the Wardens become aware of and prosecute. There's a lot of overlap between 'em, but it's not total.
Which, from my perspective, is an awful lot of (entertaining) grist for the story-mill!
Rel Fexive:
Loving this stuff!
I think the only problem with similar situations to the one above could be players who say "of course I never intended for them to be killed!" after said person is killed, when before it happened it certainly looked like they meant it to happen.
But then, "decision backtrack" players are a problem in any game.
finarvyn:
Of course, there are a couple of things to consider.
1. The magic pinned-to-the-wall effect contributed to a person's death. As Iago said, it's a gray area in terms of the First Law and might be subject to Warden investigation. In my campaign I think I would at least let the wizard sweat a little and then have the Wardens grudgingly let her off the hook ... this time. Keep in mind that death is death, no matter what the intent. The difference of murder versus manslaughter might not matter to the Wardens.
2. Thunking someone in the head with an axe is also an event that should bring in traditional civil authorities ... the police. Too many times in RPGs players get into the pattern of see a critter, kill the critter, take its loot and move on. That's not really true role playing, it's a video game mentality. The Dresden world is supposed to be essentially our world, only with the twist that magic works. Harry gets some slack because he's friends with Murph, but that doesn't always stop her from cuffing him and running him into the station. The PCs probably don't have such connections, or if they do probably haven't built up enough of a white-hat reputation to allow an axe-murder to slide off so that they can just walk away clean. If nothing else, some "Dark Side" points might be in order... ;)
Just my two cents.
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