The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
CD Spoilers: The Case of the Stolen Walking Stick
Viktor:
--- Quote from: Serack on November 30, 2012, 12:51:33 PM ---Ok so to reiterate:
There is a Celtic legend that the Blackstaff is based off of that comes from around 1065 A.D.
Jim has also said:
As the OP points out, Mother Winter had a walking stick that was lost and "she can't move around without it, so she probably wants it back."
Now add in the fact that Titania said:
The battle of Hastings happend in 1066, or "around 1065 A.D." (Blackblade citation)
So I really really want to find out about if there is a "celtic legend" from around the time of the Battle of Hastings that involves an old crone losing her walking stick. Google isn't getting the job done for me yet though.
HALP!
Extra thoughts:
Mother Winter has an IRON set of false teeth. Kinda odd for a fairy right?
--- End quote ---
I searched and searched, can't find ANYthing on this topic (Except that maybe the Winter Queens were also known as The Morrigan, but maybe I found out what it's made out of...
"BLACKTHORN
Blackthorn is a winter tree. Its white flowers are seen even before the leaves in the spring. It is black barked with vicious thorns and grows in dense thickets. The wood is used in the cudgel shillelagh and Blasting Stick. Its thorns are used to pierce waxen images. Blackthorn indicates strong action of fate or outside influences that must be obeyed. "
EDIT: More and more interesting...
"Straif Drai'on Draenenwen Blackthorn - "Tree of Punishment and Strife" Peasant. Staves of Magickal Power. Draoi (Wizard), Drai" (Druid). Power in Visible and Invisible Worlds. Use to overcome resistance to One's will. Sorcha (bright colored) or purple-black."
AcornArmy:
--- Quote from: Viktor on November 30, 2012, 09:00:26 PM ---I searched and searched, can't find ANYthing on this topic (Except that maybe the Winter Queens were also known as The Morrigan, but maybe I found out what it's made out of...
"BLACKTHORN
Blackthorn is a winter tree. Its white flowers are seen even before the leaves in the spring. It is black barked with vicious thorns and grows in dense thickets. The wood is used in the cudgel shillelagh and Blasting Stick. Its thorns are used to pierce waxen images. Blackthorn indicates strong action of fate or outside influences that must be obeyed. "
EDIT: More and more interesting...
"Straif Drai'on Draenenwen Blackthorn - "Tree of Punishment and Strife" Peasant. Staves of Magickal Power. Draoi (Wizard), Drai" (Druid). Power in Visible and Invisible Worlds. Use to overcome resistance to One's will. Sorcha (bright colored) or purple-black."
--- End quote ---
Even if that stuff somehow isn't connected to the Blackstaff-- which I doubt, after reading it-- that's still some of the coolest mythology info I've seen. Nice. :)
Bakoro:
--- Quote from: Viktor on November 30, 2012, 09:00:26 PM ---I searched and searched, can't find ANYthing on this topic (Except that maybe the Winter Queens were also known as The Morrigan, but maybe I found out what it's made out of...
--- End quote ---
This is interesting. On further reading on the Morrigan, it seems that she was the consort to the Dagda, and she indeed translates quite perfectly into the Winter Queen thing. Depending on the source, it also seems that Morgan Le Fay might have been her human aspect. Considering the relationship between the Dagda/Morrigan and Merlin/Morgan, there might be some credence to the "Odin is Merlin" theory. In the same book we find Vaderung is Odin is Kringle who has Time Powers, and we also see that Merlin is very powerful and has Time Powers AND the mental acuity to work in multiple dimensions- I'd say there's a correlation.
I personally like the idea that the original Merlin was just a crafty bad-ass wizard. I feel that Odin is Santa is Merlin is taking it one step too far, but I of course trust Jim could make it work and be believable and interesting.
I guess it really depends on which stories Jim draws from. It looks like Morgan Le Fey was originally a supernatural being, and later was reported to be Arthur's half sister. Merlin was supposed to have a demon as his father, I like the idea that Odin is Merlin's Sire better than the two being the same person.
--- Quote from: Serack on November 30, 2012, 02:40:59 PM ---I've seen similar theories before, and I think they are possible, but they aren't tied to the 1065 AD timeframe very well. I think they are the best tiein we have thus far but these WoJ's about the blackstaff make me think they are going in the wrong direction:
Some might read this differently, but I read this as saying the staff isn't doing the killing, Eb is, and the staff is just helping him keep sane and uncorrputed by the darkness of the magic. Which doesn't quite fit with the legends of Dagda's club (which is what I think the askers here were tiptoeing around asking about to avoid an "I'm not gonna tell you" sing song)
--- End quote ---
The more I'm looking into it the more things seem to mesh up. Jim specifically mentions Celtic legend and the Dagda story jibs with Arthurian legend and Dresdenology. The thing is that we don't have to go 100% on the real world lore because it all goes through the Jim filter. Lore is a bunch of half-truths anyway.
I am totally open to hearing your thoughts on the matter if you have another line of thought for me to investigate.
I'm just not mentally tying the Blackstaff too tightly to the 1065 AD time frame. That might have been when a change of hands occurred or something.
I immediately could only find a few historically important things of note (thing that I can relate directly to DF) that happened in 1060s Europe:
1063: The River Thames is frozen for 14 weeks. (Obviously something Wintery happened)
1066:
King of England dies, and New King (Harold) gets chosen by a council of old men.
Battle of Hastings, King Harold and all his brothers are killed and England gets taken over.
Dark Ages ends, Middle Ages begin.
End of the Viking Age in England.
We have a little bit to work with there in terms of guessing at the powers and meaning behind those events, but as far as lore and mythology goes I'm at a total lose as to were else I should be looking.
KevinSig:
--- Quote from: Serack on November 30, 2012, 12:51:33 PM ---HALP!
Extra thoughts:
Mother Winter has an IRON set of false teeth. Kinda odd for a fairy right?
--- End quote ---
I don't think this is the tale you're looking for, but it is interesting & reminds me of Mother Winter.
--- Quote ---The Witch of Wookey
Wookey, Somerset
Deep in the dark caverns of Wookey Hole dwelt at one time the Witch of Wookey - and dwells there still, if the gossips are to be trusted, though she, her pots and pans and horrid "familiars," are all turned to stone. A chagrined and disappointed woman, she used her merciless arts to blight girls' lives and keep them from the joys denied to herself. But she reckoned without a certain Holy Clerk of Glastonbury! With his Good Book he exorcised the Witch, and turned her to stone; he then cleansed from all evil the dreadful cavern.
--- End quote ---
http://www.britannia.com/history/legend/collection/legcol13.html
It'd be a stretch to think that relieving Mother Winter of her cane, turned her to stone, but otherwise it does kinda sound like MW. (Found a more detailed version, when I went looking for the specific legend, instead of Celtic lore of 1065.)
Also, I did use www.Bing.com to find this. Surprisingly, I find that it's a smidgen better at digging up some things.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Bakoro on December 01, 2012, 09:04:22 AM ---I immediately could only find a few historically important things of note (thing that I can relate directly to DF) that happened in 1060s Europe:
1063: The River Thames is frozen for 14 weeks. (Obviously something Wintery happened)
1066:
King of England dies, and New King (Harold) gets chosen by a council of old men.
Battle of Hastings, King Harold and all his brothers are killed and England gets taken over.
Dark Ages ends, Middle Ages begin.
End of the Viking Age in England.
--- End quote ---
That is all saxon, nothing irish.
And depending on your point of view the dark ages started at 1066.
A well organized saxon state was replaced by norman oppression and barbarism. The last remnants of civilization fled to Byzantium to join the varangian guard. ;D
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