Using Fists, Guns and Weaponry with Evocation

[Sanctaphrax]

Good point. To clarify, I meant in terms of single attacks.

Even then.

Single attacks are what Evocation is best at. (Ignoring Orbius.)

Its maneuvers, while diverse, are still just single aspects and often have a duration limitation that normal maneuvers don't have.

And it's not great for concealment since foci are pretty obvious to anything with supernatural perception. Plus it tends to be really obvious when in use.

[crusher_bob]

Good point. To clarify, I meant in terms of single attacks. Certainly Evocation has the benefits of being the ultimate concealed weapon, and the maneuver possibilities are really only limited by the player's imagination.

Unless you use some evocation maneuver related house rules, doing a maneuver using evocation is always a terrible use of resources.  You spend a point of precious mental stress and get something you most likely could have gotten without spending the stress.

As for concealable weapons, Harry seems to have no problem concealing with (weapon 3) .44 magnum pistol.  And if you are worried about concealing weapons, you may have to worry about crossing thresholds without getting permission first, which would reduce the effectiveness of your evocations.

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Of course, this isn't to say that evocation is problem free.

[The Happy Anarchist]

One thing I think people often forget is what that X less Refresh actually means for the Mortal Gunman.

So you can have that Evoker with the Targeting roll of 8 and Weapon: 6, costing at least one mental stress...

The mortal Gunman has the base of the 5-6 targeting roll and Weapon: 3, but is invoking 2-3 or more aspects on the environment, his character sheet and perhaps on the enemy and suddenly you are looking at a 9-12 targeting roll or more. 

Mortals have fate points to spend that higher level supernaturals do not.

One thing to keep in mind as a mortal player - think of your Refresh level as your "super power" If you are not spending at least 4-6 fate points between every refresh you are not using the "power" that you bought by being a mortal.  Ideally, you would use almost all of your fate points, particularly when you are pretty sure you will get a refresh.

People have a habit of trying to horde resources, and I think a lot of the "balance" issues actually slow down if you encourage mortal players to really cash those fate points in.

[AstronaughtAndy]

So I've been reading through some of the homebrew stunts, and some of the stunts that stand out are the "+2 stress on successful attacks vs. (Mortals/vampires/creature types)." So a stunt like that puts the mortal gunman's Weapon:3 up to a Weapon:5.

Plus I like the idea of the monster hunter who's trained to shoot/swing for the supernatural baddie's weak spots.

And I agree, The Happy Anarchist, a boatload of fate points is sort of the mortal's superpower.

Sidenote: would you consider "standing up to the big scary monster which you are incredibly outclassed against" count as a compel for the average mortal fighting person PC?

[Tedronai]

Sidenote: would you consider "standing up to the big scary monster which you are incredibly outclassed against" count as a compel for the average mortal fighting person PC?

Only if they're actually outclassed.

[Sanctaphrax]

Only if it's a bad idea to stand up. And only if they have an appropriate aspect.

If fighting is the optimal strategy in that situation, then no Compel.

[Silverblaze]

I'd like to point out that fate points are finite to some extent over the course of a session.  Say both characters have 8 refresh to spend.  The mortal spent 0.  The other chracter is specialized for combat in some sense, be it evocation or super powers/stunts. This character has 1 refresh left.

In the first fight the mortal spends four fate points to be as effective as the other character. 

Later in the game they compel to get two or so back.  Then wind up spending one in a social combat or for a skill roll.

Later that night; another fight breaks out.  The mortal has only 5 fate points to spend in this fight. Once those fate points are gone, the mortal is far less effective.

Meanwhile, the stresses are back for the supernatural critter or wizard.  They are just as effective as they were at the beginning of the session.  They may have even gotten a few compels to drop some fate points on top of that.

Mortals become less effective in longer games and the higher refresh the game is set at.  I've seen it happen.

In a session that is over 6 hours mortals will probably be ok.  Find a session over 8-10 hours...problems can arise.  Find a session lasting 12+ hours....they run out of gas compared to supernatural badasses.

Mortals are fun and viable much of the time, but if your "superpower" eventually runs out of gas the longer the game goes.  Your power isn't quite up to the par of people with real powers.

EDIT: Some tmes there will be a refresh from an event during that length of time.  I'll even say usually.  Not always though...

[Tedronai]

Extended gaming sessions without a Refresh point can cripple Pure Mortal or even Minor Power characters.
Extended combat without a Scene break can cripple characters reliant on Channeling/Evocation, Sacred Guardian or Recovery powers.

[Silverblaze]

Extended gaming sessions without a Refresh point can cripple Pure Mortal or even Minor Power characters.
Extended combat without a Scene break can cripple characters reliant on Channeling/Evocation, Sacred Guardian or Recovery powers.

Totally agreed.

[AstronaughtAndy]

The average session for my group is 4-6 hours, but your point on Refresh points and scene breaks is duly noted.