McAnally's (The Community Pub) > Author Craft

Bechdel test observations

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Sir Huron Stone:
I didn't understand Quantus' post at all.

Oh well. At least i have a toasted teacake.  :)

jeno:
In simple terms, a story passes the Bechdel Test if three conditions are met:

- there are at least two women
- who talk to each other at any point in the story
- about something other than a guy

And that's it. 90% of movies and genre novels fail, which is pretty sad when you remember that half the population of the world is made up of women.  ::)


It's not impossible for a first person male POV to pass the Bechdel (DF manages it, though not every book), but it can definitely be finicky, particularly if the story occurs in a male dominated setting. Sometimes passing the Bechdel is just not possible depending on the story you're trying to tell. But those instances are a lot rarer than Hollywood would have it. (50% of the population)

And there are definitely cases where I'd say a book passes the Bechdel in spirit, if not by letter. (I'm thinking of The Name Of The Wind and the first half of The Lies Of Locke Lamora.) And there are cases where a story passes the Bechdel by letter, but not in spirit (like Changes, with Susan and Molly).

What's ridiculous is when you've got a door stopper fantasy trilogy with a major female POV and it still doesn't pass the Bechdel Test. That's just sad. (and perplexing? like, how is that even possible?)

Quantus:

--- Quote from: Sir Huron Stone on June 27, 2012, 01:42:28 AM ---I didn't understand Quantus' post at all.

Oh well. At least i have a toasted teacake.  :)

--- End quote ---
I was just saying that in a 1st POV story the MC is involved in more conversations purely because they are the POV for the reader, and not because of anything about the character itself.  So if you want the test to be a fair one that you can use comparatively, I think you should discount the MC (regardless of gender), and only consider supporting characters. 

Winter_Knight:
Fascinating. Until now, I never even heard of this test. Ironically, I don't use it consciously either. By that, I mean that if the characters talk to me, they define the parameters of gender. I really feel these worlds are already established, and the characters simply allow us the privilege of seeing into them. (Which many famous authors have mentioned or alluded to.) The concept sounds silly, OFC, but if you're one of them who enjoys this privilege, you understand what I mean. For those who write differently, the concept is... difficult to relate to, I imagine.

Now regarding the ironic bit, I say ironic because the novel I am currently seeking to put on Amazon Prime has a nearly 50/50 ratio of male/female characters, with the males popping out in the lead by only one, out of a cast of seven. The bad guys, on the other hand, are at a 3:1 ratio. XD However, I can't remember if passes the Bechdel test, but if it does, it's by sheer coincidence, I assure you, LOL

The point I'm making however, is that I do not believe an author sits down with the sole intent, much less even a passing thought, of creating a work which will, indeed, pass the Bechdel test. Whether it does or does not, I believe this to be a product of coincidence, rather than design. In fact, depending on the numbers of the cast you employ in your novel, it would seem to me more a matter of numerical probabilities whether or not the Bechdel test is passed or failed.

the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:

--- Quote from: Winter_Knight on July 02, 2012, 04:33:36 AM ---The point I'm making however, is that I do not believe an author sits down with the sole intent, much less even a passing thought, of creating a work which will, indeed, pass the Bechdel test.

--- End quote ---

I do.  Very consciously and specifically.  Along with a number of other issues on similar scales. 

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