Power Rewrite: Physical Immunity

[Becq]

Immunity to Seduction Attempts?

"Hey, big boy, wanna go back to my place?"
"Depends, do you have the new DFRPG module?  If so, we could run through that..."
"No, I mean I want to rock your world!"
"Why, is your wizard specialized in earth magic?"

Totally clueless [-?]
You are completely immune to any social attacks that attempt to seduce you.  You never take stress or consequences from such attempts, and seduction-related maneuver attempts fail.

[Silverblaze]

Immunity to Seduction Attempts?

Could represent being a eunuch or being genderless.

I don't think free immunity should be possible unless the thing you're immune to is truly harmless.

Social Immunity still doesn't make sense.

I think you charge too much for Mental Immunity. Mental stress isn't that common.

Immunity to drowning, fatigue, sleep, and falling can all be obtained elsewhere more easily.

I think you underestimate the importance of poison.

Stacking two immunities should not cost as much as both together. Immunity to monkey wrenches, halberds, and pickaxes should not cost as much as immunity to metal weapons.

Holy should not be given special status.

Poison is still just one type of damage.

Just because they can be obtained does not mean the character whop is immune tothem should have recovery and therefore heal faster.  Some concepts would not regenerate and would not feel fatigue.

Social immunity doesn't have to make sense to you.  I want a cost for it in case someone wants it.  I don't even use social combat in my games so it'd be useless to me   Still worth figuring a cost for.

Being immune to holy costs extra.  Holy touch bypasses all toughness for one stress.  Soulfire lowers toughness.

Would you prefer I list costs for Holy touch and soulfire specifically instead?

Trying a new chart.

[Silverblaze]

-0 aging, bad smells, sweating,
-1 fatigue (from endurance - not Stress), disease, drowning, monkey wrenches (only monkey wrenches or other specific thing) paper, getting drunk, seduction attempts
-2 falling, sleep, hunger, thirst, poison
-3 metal weapons, claws, non metal weapons, an element ( fire, cold, electricity, explosions, pure force, wind, water, earth), distractions
-4 a type of magic, a type of creature
-5 magic, weapons, natural weapons, insanity
-6 immunity to attacks from a gender
-7 attacks from immortal beings or mortal beings
 -8 immunity to attack from all but genderless beings
-9 mental or social immunity
-13? physical immunity (damage, insanity, distractions)
-20 two complete immunites listed above
- 30 immune to all three


I think -13, -20 and -30 are too expensive.  Ideas?

-12, - 15, -20?

I think immunities that are stacked can be paid for as I suggested.  Why shouldn't it?

[Becq]

A character that is immune to all physical, social, and mental attacks has a special term that applies to it.

"Plot Device"

[Sanctaphrax]

Poison is still just one type of damage.

So's magic. But one Refresh for immunity to magic would be silly.

Just because they can be obtained does not mean the character whop is immune tothem should have recovery and therefore heal faster.  Some concepts would not regenerate and would not feel fatigue.

If does mean, however, that they shouldn't cost so much. If I can get immunity to drowning and an extra benefit for 1 refresh, why should I have to pay 1 Refresh for just immunity to drowning?

Social immunity doesn't have to make sense to you.  I want a cost for it in case someone wants it.  I don't even use social combat in my games so it'd be useless to me   Still worth figuring a cost for.

It's not that it doesn't make sense to me, it's that it doesn't make sense period.

The concept is ridiculous. Assigning a Refresh cost to it is like assigning a Refresh cost to yellow fnrejbn an tortoise.

Being immune to holy costs extra.  Holy touch bypasses all toughness for one stress.  Soulfire lowers toughness.

Would you prefer I list costs for Holy touch and soulfire specifically instead?

No.

I'd prefer you specify the effects of Soulfire on Immunity, then rewrite Holy Touch because apparently you want it to do something it does not, at present, do.

[Becq]

Soulfire downgrades all Toughness powers by one step.  Physical Immunity is in fact a "Toughness power".  Therefore it seems reasonable to assume that Physical Immunity would count as armor:3 against Soulfire.

Note: The first two sentences are RAW; the third is my assumption in the absence of any indication that an alternate interpretation is indicated.

I can see the conundrum on Holy Touch, since on the one hand it indicates that creatures that don't have Catch:holy take a stress regardless, while on the other hand an Immunity power that doesn't have Catch: holy indicates that you should take no stress.  My take on this is that the 1 stress 'minimal hit' from Holy touch bypasses everything, similar to ACAEBG (but only for that one stress), but that's just my feeling about how it should play, not RAW.

[Silverblaze]

So's magic. But one Refresh for immunity to magic would be silly.

If does mean, however, that they shouldn't cost so much. If I can get immunity to drowning and an extra benefit for 1 refresh, why should I have to pay 1 Refresh for just immunity to drowning?

It's not that it doesn't make sense to me, it's that it doesn't make sense period.

The concept is ridiculous. Assigning a Refresh cost to it is like assigning a Refresh cost to yellow fnrejbn an tortoise.

No.

I'd prefer you specify the effects of Soulfire on Immunity, then rewrite Holy Touch because apparently you want it to do something it does not, at present, do.

Magic is at least 5 types of damage.  So yeah it would be stupid to cost that at -1 refresh.

Aside from that I agree with Becq in regards to holy touch and soulfire.

As for your opinion of recovery vs immunity to sleep.  it makes perfect sense.  Not every character needs to be efficient.  Some characters might be immune to drowning, but not be aquatic.  Some scions may be immune to getting tired from running (Scion of Hermes?) However they may not want or feel that recovery is fitting for the concept.

How does that not make sense?

[Silverblaze]

A character that is immune to all physical, social, and mental attacks has a special term that applies to it.

"Plot Device"

Agreed, however, I've found lots of people on this forum as well as those I've met who want to stat plot devices.  Those immune to all three damage types still can be hurt by something.  Those players and GM's would perhaps want to know a cost for such a power.

I'm not advocating the use for a player or even 99.99% of NPC's.  However, I'd like to try to accomodate as many as possible with this power.

[Tedronai]

As for your opinion of recovery vs immunity to sleep.  it makes perfect sense.  Not every character needs to be efficient.  Some characters might be immune to drowning, but not be aquatic.  Some scions may be immune to getting tired from running (Scion of Hermes?) However they may not want or feel that recovery is fitting for the concept.

How does that not make sense?

This is that whole 'should powers be balanced thing, again.
It is obviously a reasonable proposition to be able to separate these effects out of their original power, but that should also change the price of the resulting power, not merely remove the additional benefits from the original power when those benefits constituted a substantial portion of that power.

[Sanctaphrax]

Tedronai said it better than I would have.

[Silverblaze]

Does this work better then?

-0 aging, bad smells, sweating, paper, getting drunk, fatigue (from endurance - not Stress)
 
-1disease, drowning, monkey wrenches (only monkey wrenches or other specific thing), sleep, hunger, thirst, seduction attempts, falling

-2 , all poisons


How are we on costs in the middle ground (-4-7 range)?  I'm trying to get these close to keep you all happy, but I also feel the need to justify why I costed them as I did.

[Sanctaphrax]

The problem is that any Refresh cost for immunity to falling, fatigue, or drowning will always be too much because you can get immunity to those things plus other benefits for the same cost.

I suggest bundling immunities to fix this.

Immunity to drowning and fatigue and falling together is easily worth a point of Refresh. Probably too good for one Refresh, actually.

Still think poison immunity is good enough to charge 2 or 3 Refresh for.

And immunity to seduction is actually useful. I wouldn't give it away free.

[Silverblaze]

The problem is that any Refresh cost for immunity to falling, fatigue, or drowning will always be too much because you can get immunity to those things plus other benefits for the same cost.

I suggest bundling immunities to fix this.

Immunity to drowning and fatigue and falling together is easily worth a point of Refresh. Probably too good for one Refresh, actually.

Still think poison immunity is good enough to charge 2 or 3 Refresh for.

And immunity to seduction is actually useful. I wouldn't give it away free.

Yeah, ok I get your costing point.

Do you get my point?

Some characters who are immune to falling damage would not regenerate.  Some people who are immune to drowning would not be immune to falling.

lets take some character concpets that this works for.

Were Cheetah - sadly not immune to fatigue from running (they use hunting dogs to kill them because the cheetah lacks stamina), however we could enhance the myth of cats falling on their feet to take an immunity to falling damage.

Wolverine - not immune to anything, but he does have recovery

Colossus (x-men fame) - immune to sleep, immune to breathing (drowning) doesn't have to eat or drink in metal form, does not regenerate (recovery), not immune to falling damage or fatigue.

The powers I'm making here may not be optimal but they do allow you to create a wider range of specific characters.

I'll alter seduction to -1

I'll alter movement barriers also to be inline with Ways and Means teleport power.

[Sanctaphrax]

I get your point, but I think there are better solutions then deliberately offering underpowered Powers.

Replace "fatigue" with "fatigue, thirst, and starvation" in the -1 category. That'd make it worthwhile.

If people don't want that particular combo, that's okay. The examples are just examples, to give you an idea of what each amount of Refresh can buy.

[Silverblaze]

I get your point, but I think there are better solutions then deliberately offering underpowered Powers.

Replace "fatigue" with "fatigue, thirst, and starvation" in the -1 category. That'd make it worthwhile.

If people don't want that particular combo, that's okay. The examples are just examples, to give you an idea of what each amount of Refresh can buy.

Fatigue is already -0.  I am ok with combining thirst and hunger.

I'll concede that sincee these are examples, players are free to not optimize. 

I'll alter this.

Can we move on to the rest of the list or:

I'm stealing a line from Sanctaphrax - "I'll assume this is perfect."

New List:


-0 aging, bad smells, sweating, paper, getting drunk, fatigue (from endurance - not Stress)
 -1 disease, drowning, monkey wrenches (only monkey wrenches or other specific thing), sleep, hunger & thirst, seduction attempts, falling damage
-2  all poisons
-3 metal weapons, claws, non metal weapons, an element ( fire, cold, electricity, explosions, pure force, wind, water, earth), distractions
-4 a type of magic, a type of creature
-5 magic, weapons, natural weapons, insanity
-6 immunity to attacks from a gender
-7 attacks from immortal beings or mortal beings
 -8 immunity to attack from all but genderless beings
-9 mental or social immunity
-13 physical immunity to damage, insanity, distractions
-20 two complete immunites listed above
- 30 immune to all three