Urban Fantasy FATE 2.5

[Richard_Chilton]

DFRPG, since it is based around the DV, does not handle generic Urban Fantasy all that well.  True, the mechanics of DFRPG aren't covered by the OGL, but since they do encourage you to make custom rules, I thought maybe it was time we had a thread looking at using DFRPG outside of the DV.

Personally, one thing I see as a flaw in the current system is the costs of things.  Everything costs 0, 1, 2, 3, etc refresh.  Looking at some of the powers, it's hard to saw "this power is as good as that power" when they cost the same.

My proposal is to multiple by ten and go from there while assuming that all current powers round to their current value.

For example, instead starting with 7 refresh a PC would start with 70.  Stunts would cost 10 refresh each, and as for powers... something like Cassandra’s Tears would probably cost 2 or 3 refresh.

The way this system comes to life is with powers like Claws.  Currently we only have non-concealable Claws (because that's what is found in the DV), but in an expanded system we could have:
Claws (non-concealable): 8 refresh
Claws (concealable): 12 refresh.

Or add an optional trapping to Claws:
Concealable [-4]
Your Claws can be easily concealed.  Maybe they can retract like a cat's or maybe you and the GM will work out another explanation.  Whatever the case, you can appear unarmed when you choose to.


Of course, at some point we'll have to look at sex as it applies to Urban Fantasy.  Or we could leave it at:
Sex can be a primal force.  If the table is comfortable with using it, it can be used to declare aspects that can be tagged in ritualistic spell casting.
Example Aspects: "Puppy Pile Power", "First Time Jitters", "It Was Magical", "It Was Magical For Me Two", , "It Was Magical For Me Three".
Such declarations can be made using Discipline (focusing while being very distracted), Conviction (because you are doing it for power, not pleasure), or Endurance (stamina).  If the group allows, a Performance based Stunt "Bedroom Olympian" could allow Performance based declarations.

Which is a PG write up of the Anita Blake / Paranormal Romance flavour of Urban Fantasy.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Richard

[DFJunkie]

Retractable claws really bother you huh?

[ways and means]

You do realize sex is powerful in DF too or did you not read the first book and wcv should almost certainly have a few sex related aspex and stunts.

[Richard_Chilton]

Retractable claws really bother you huh?

Not really, but there was a huge debate on another thread about them.  I didn't bother joining in on that aspect of the debate but I did skim it.

You do realize sex is powerful in DF too or did you not read the first book.

Yes, I did.  But a bunch of minor characters laying aspects and taking consequence to make potions is one thing, a custom made bed big enough for three vampires, four were beasts, a couple of characters pulled into the pile at the last minute, and a "human" necromancer (who is usually the only female in the pile and "pulling the train") is another.  Which probably why the DFRPG is silent on the issue.

I've read Anita Blake novels that had multiple chapters devoted to one sex scene - which you couldn't skip over because the plot was being advanced via sex and visions obtained during sex.  Usually there are vast amounts of power being raised during that sex - to battle a god or demi-god or the monster of the week - or just to recharge everyone for the next fight.

Beyond the specifics, are there any views on the general x10 suggestion?

Richard

[Ophidimancer]

My proposal is to multiple by ten and go from there while assuming that all current powers round to their current value.

Since you're multiplying the Refresh cost for everything equally all you're doing is making the power differentials more granular, which is fine if you want to do that.  I personally don't see the point, really.  What this does affect a lot more is leftover fate points.  An adjusted Refresh of 1 currently becomes 10 in your system.  That's a hell of a lot of fate points.  Be prepared for a lot of derailment as your players take over the game completely with declarations and such.  It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is different.

The way this system comes to life is with powers like Claws.  Currently we only have non-concealable Claws (because that's what is found in the DV), but in an expanded system we could have:
Claws (non-concealable): 8 refresh
Claws (concealable): 12 refresh.

Or add an optional trapping to Claws:
Concealable [-4]
Your Claws can be easily concealed.  Maybe they can retract like a cat's or maybe you and the GM will work out another explanation.  Whatever the case, you can appear unarmed when you choose to.

Do you realize that you can do this right now with the Human Guise and Human Form powers?

[Richard_Chilton]

Since you're multiplying the Refresh cost for everything equally all you're doing is making the power differentials more granular, which is fine if you want to do that.  I personally don't see the point, really.  What this does affect a lot more is leftover fate points.  An adjusted Refresh of 1 currently becomes 10 in your system.

You're right - to keep things even it would have to be 1 refresh for every 10 refresh...

Or instead of multiplying by ten we use tenths.  Set costs to 0.8, 1.2, etc.

Do you realize that you can do this right now with the Human Guise and Human Form powers?

Yes, but does Human Guise/Form do everything that retractable Claws would? Usually those powers are link to multiple things.  For example, a Ghoul looks human or it looks like a Ghoul.  If retractable Claws existed and they were not covered by Human Guise/Form then a PC could look like a human with Claws...

Then again, maybe I should have chosen a different example of a slight variation in a power - but Claws /  Retractable Claws seemed to be a good place to start.

Richard

[Ophidimancer]

You're right - to keep things even it would have to be 1 refresh for every 10 refresh...

Or instead of multiplying by ten we use tenths.  Set costs to 0.8, 1.2, etc.

Sounds more complicated than I like my FATE games to run.

Yes, but does Human Guise/Form do everything that retractable Claws would?

Yes.  When you're not using them, you look completely like a normal human.

[Richard_Chilton]

Sounds more complicated than I like my FATE games to run.

It's just an idea.

Yes.  When you're not using them, you look completely like a normal human.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but (based on Ghouls and RCV) when you are using Claws (or any power covered by Human Form/Guise) you don't human.  You look like the monster you are.

Who would use retractable Claws?
Shrug.
Troll changelings who don't want people to see their Claws?

Again, maybe that was the wrong thing to pick as an example a variable power.

Richard

[DFJunkie]

My bad, I thought you were one of the folks involved in the overwrought battle over retractable claws.

From what I know about Anita Blake it would be better served by a WoD style system.  That world's vampires are far more differentiated, with complicated and meaningful distinctions drawn between bloodlines, ages, etc.  You could do it with Fate, but it seems like the powers themselves aren't granular enough, not just the costs of the powers.  Even with a fairly vanilla DF style game having only three levels of superhuman strength is occasionally a bit limiting. 

[devonapple]

There are a couple of options out there:
Strands of Fate could have been better edited, but it is jockeying to be the GURPS of FATE. The way that system handles Powers is very granular in comparison to DFRPG. I found the two systems almost impossible to reconcile, as they have such different economies: many of the Powers require spending a FATE Point (though the characters HAVE more FP to spend since Powers come out of a different character point budget).

The Kerberos Club is a Victorian/Steampunk FATE game which, I am told, is also a decent run at a generic FATE setting., but I haven't reviewed it yet.

[Ophidimancer]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but (based on Ghouls and RCV) when you are using Claws (or any power covered by Human Form/Guise) you don't human.  You look like the monster you are.

When you're using your claws, they are visible and monstrous, but it doesn't change your whole appearance, just your hands/feet.  If you want to look completely human even while using your claws then what you want aren't retractable claws, what you want are invisible claws.

And yes, maybe that wasn't the best example of what you wanted.  I still don't personally want the FATE system to get any more granular, but you're cool to do whatever you want to do.

As for Anita Blake, I've also read all the novels and I totally think you could do it with the DFRPG system.  You'd probably want to take out the Laws of Magic, of course, but a lot of other things port over just fine.

[Mr. Death]

The main problem I see with multiplying refresh by 10 is, what the heck does that do to fate points? Giving someone dozens of fate points right off the bat seems ill advised.

[Richard_Chilton]

My bad, I thought you were one of the folks involved in the overwrought battle over retractable claws.

Understandable.  That was one of the few debates that I didn't get involved with.

And those debate are one of the reason why I'm starting a thread to deal with non-DV games.  There are a number (say 4 - 6) posters who don't seem thing that the DV belongs in the DFRPG. 

As for Anita, she might be able to be done in the DFRPG - but her skills after book 5 would be hitting Epic / Legendary type levels. Her books seem to contain 2 - 5 major milestones, giving her access to ridiculous power levels (Monty Hall must be her GM).

Which is one of the reasons I enjoyed the early Dresden books so much - the lack of a power creep.  Harry's in the top 100 wizards in book 1, 2, 3, and 4.  After that he starts growing a bit, but each new power (hellfire/Soulfire) came with negatives (bad temper/risk of using up his soul).  His rank in the wizard world kept going up, but mostly from the war killing off some of the more powerful folks.

But there are countless Urban Fantasy books out there.  We could look at Mercedes Lackey's SERRAted Edge / Bedlam's Bard elves (they have their own Nevernever world) and other powers and themes that do not fit in the DV. (EG: Angels or Fae with freewill.)

Richard

[devonapple]

I presume that what we're doing is:
1. converting Refresh into Build Points at a rate of 1:10
2. converting Power costs into Build Points and adjusting some of the costs
3. adding additional Power modifiers
4. spending Build Points on all these things
5. take the leftover Build Points and convert them back at a rate of 10:1, rounding up

[Richard_Chilton]

When you're using your claws, they are visible and monstrous, but it doesn't change your whole appearance, just your hands/feet.

I was under the belief that it was an all/nothing.  You look like a little old lady pushing a shopping cart or you look like a Ghoul.  You look like a sexy madam or you look like a RCV in its true form.  One or the other, not bits of both.

If you want to look completely human even while using your claws then what you want aren't retractable claws, what you want are invisible claws.

That would also work - but that should cost more.

And I was thinking more Wolverine looking than Troll looking.  Both half claws, one can generally pass for human at a distance.

I presume that what we're doing is:
1. converting Refresh into Build Points at a rate of 1:10
2. converting Power costs into Build Points and adjusting some of the costs
3. adding additional Power modifiers
4. spending Build Points on all these things
5. take the leftover Build Points and convert them back at a rate of 10:1, rounding up

Yes - that's basically it.  Mostly to allow for things that don't seem worth an extra point of refresh but should cost something.  Either multiplying by 10 or using decimals - something like that.

Richard