FEEEEEEEEEED ME SEYMOUR!

[Mr. Death]

So I was looking over the feeding dependency write up in the books, and have a question I'd like clarified.

It says that if you make the discipline roll, you get to wipe the hunger track clean, then it says if you fail the roll, you take stress to the track equal to the difference in roll.

Maybe I'm just being dense here, but on the first bit, does that include stress that's already on the track? For example, if a vampire fails a roll in one scene and takes 2 hunger stress, then makes the roll in the next, does it just not take the stress for that scene, or is the track totally wiped clean of the pre-existing stress?

[Tsunami]

So I was looking over the feeding dependency write up in the books, and have a question I'd like clarified.

It says that if you make the discipline roll, you get to wipe the hunger track clean, then it says if you fail the roll, you take stress to the track equal to the difference in roll.

Maybe I'm just being dense here, but on the first bit, does that include stress that's already on the track? For example, if a vampire fails a roll in one scene and takes 2 hunger stress, then makes the roll in the next, does it just not take the stress for that scene, or is the track totally wiped clean of the pre-existing stress?

The second.
The Stress track is wiped clean of all stress.

That's how i read it. And i honestly don't know how to read it differently.

[DFJunkie]

I concur.  If you’re thinking “but that means it’s practically impossible for the WCV to actually lose their shit” I also agree.  My group has been playing for over a year now and I’ve yet to see my WCV player actually be inconvenienced by it. 

[Tedronai]

If you're playing a vampire exploring a darker path, remember that the Hunger track is also cleared whenever you kill by feeding.

As to the rarity of hunger stress actually becoming an issue, remember that most vampires have refresh spent on affected powers substantially in excess of their Discipline.
PCs with peak discipline, FPs to burn, and maybe even a stunt dedicated to Hunger 'defense' are an exception to the norm.

[ways and means]

Funnily enough there is nothing stopping a White Court Vampire doing weights for a scene (only using inhuman Strength) to recover hunger stress, it is actually more effective than feeding.

[Mr. Death]

Funnily enough there is nothing stopping a White Court Vampire doing weights for a scene (only using inhuman Strength) to recover hunger stress, it is actually more effective than feeding.

Yeah, that's actually why I asked the question. It just seems off that way.

[Sanctaphrax]

It seems off because it is off. The writing on Feeding Dependency is not great.

That's not the only problem with it, by the way. It's rather unclear how the power-losing effect of Feeding Dependency works.

It's on my list of things to rewrite.

[Tsunami]

Funnily enough there is nothing stopping a White Court Vampire doing weights for a scene (only using inhuman Strength) to recover hunger stress, it is actually more effective than feeding.

Well, if a player did that, then i would simply judge that to not be "heavily exerted", not make him roll for hunger stress at all, and thereby rob him of the chance to cheat. *g*

[Mr. Death]

It's rather unclear how the power-losing effect of Feeding Dependency works.

See, I thought losing the powers was clear enough: You buy off stress with them to avoid being Taken Out, a la consequences.

That said, there's some precedent in the novels for someone apparently relieving themselves of the hunger through "heavy exertion," if you take Harry and Susan's "solution" into account. But they're probably a special case.

[ways and means]

Well, if a player did that, then i would simply judge that to not be "heavily exerted", not make him roll for hunger stress at all, and thereby rob him of the chance to cheat. *g*

Ok so the WCV has to lift cars during his exercise to be certain no one thinks he isn't exerting himself (if the worlds strongest man can do it). 

[Silverblaze]

See, I thought losing the powers was clear enough: You buy off stress with them to avoid being Taken Out, a la consequences.

That said, there's some precedent in the novels for someone apparently relieving themselves of the hunger through "heavy exertion," if you take Harry and Susan's "solution" into account. But they're probably a special case.

Nah, sex is thematically appropriate to vampires in most other genres I'd allow it as exertion.  Blood and sex are pretty intertwined to most fiction about vampires.  They are sensual critters.  RCV seem to be.  WCV definitely are.  BCV likely not, but i wouldn't disallow one to sate it's urges that way.  Creepy as it sounds...

If Toe Moss can feed by styling hair...well, there is a lot of leeway for this sort of thing.  At present it'll vary from game to game I bet.

Ok so the WCV has to lift cars during his exercise to be certain no one thinks he isn't exerting himself (if the worlds strongest man can do it). 

I'd let that go so long as the player was willing to roleplay the fact that it was something they had to do as urgently as if they needed drugs, sex, food, or feeding.  The goals seems to be to exert themselves to allow them a chance to overtly assert their sel control (discipline) by giving themself something hard to do and somethign else to concentrate on.

I however would keep playing up the fact through compels taht the demon wanted real food.

I also agree feeding dependency could use some clarification. 

I just think that if Evil hat reads these threads (or have mods reporting ideas like this) that I hope they release a section in the next supplement addressing rules revisions or errata to old powers/rules/etc.

[Sanctaphrax]

Some people think that any hunger stress costs you powers, regardless of whether your stress track can absorb it. And that reading is supported by the rules about as well as yours. Maybe better.

Regardless, the mechanic in question here is silly. It's not terribly balanced, it makes no sense thematically, and it encourages people to act in ways that you don't want.

The whole weight-lifting example is kinda silly, but it's what the rules encourage you to do.

[Mr. Death]

One way to look at it, I suppose, is that the Hunger stress is the kind of stress you can shake off, but the Discipline roll means a character has to put effort into shaking it off (while mental, physical, or social stress just kind of unwinds on its own), while hunger consequences are the things that really require that you feed to get rid of them.

So a hunger stress is when the dessert tray comes by and looks really good, but you're full and can wave it off with some willpower, but a hunger consequence (or loss of power) is when you haven't eaten a thing for three days and someone hands you a BLT.

[Tsunami]

Ok so the WCV has to lift cars during his exercise to be certain no one thinks he isn't exerting himself (if the worlds strongest man can do it).

Actually, if the vamp lifts cars just for the heck of it (i.e. to get a free regen roll), then he doesnt exert himself either... imho

The reasoning behind this statement being the same as how to decide when to require a skill-roll for any given task.

If there is no interesting outcome, then there is no roll.

A Vamp simply doing weights, or lifting cars for no reason other than gaining a "free" regen roll is totally boring, not to mention illogical, and therefore there is no roll.

[Mr. Death]

Well, it says you don't roll if there's no interesting result to failure. A WCV doing some car-pressing has at least two interesting opportunities for failure: Make him roll Might or Endurance against being injured (maybe he can't lift the car all the way), and there's always the chance he'll fail his feeding roll (particularly if he has anything to compel).