The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Taking a closer look at Small Favor (LONG)
knnn:
Preface:
Small Favor is another of those books where something is going on in the background, and I've been trying to come up with a theory to explain it all. I've come up with something, but I don't feel it is quite as solid as what I have for Proven Guilty, but I still think it is worth sharing. As such, I am going to build up to the theory one block at a time, so that even if the full story is not perfect, at least the individual building blocks may encourages other to come up with their own insights.
Here goes (deep breath):
1) Is Mab being played, or is she the "player"?
We are told in Small Favor that the whole "Harry is predictable" explains how the Denarian's plan to capture the Archive isn't crazy. However, there still is a critical point missing -- they would have had to predict that Mab would:
a) Choose to rescue Marcone, and
b) Choose Harry as Emissary in this task.
Now, one could say that Harry would have investigated Marcone's abduction without Mab's intervention, but I'll deal with that chain of logic later on.
Instead, consider the notion of trying to get Mab to do what you want. Yes, she is predictable (i.e. no free will), but then so is that world-champion-chess-playing-computer-program. Sure, if you study the algorithms it uses you can predict what it might do at any given position, but lets see you beat it at a game of chess.... With Mab it is much worse. Not only do you need to be able to understand her thought-processes in an intimate manner, you also need access to every piece of information she uses to make those decisions - and she has *lots* of ways of gathering information.
Thus, if it's a choice between Mab being played, or Mab playing a game on someone else -- my money is on Mab. If you limit the choice to "Denarians playing Mab" or "Mab playing the Denarians", I certainly know who I'm betting on. The only way I could see Mab being played is if was someone like Titania or an Archangel playing on the other side. I personally believe Titania is working hand in hand with Mab, but that is a subject for a different post (see here for my thoughts on that issue).
Two more points that can be read as supporting Mab:
a) Harry notes (end of chapter 7), that the first set of gruffs were sent by Titania hours before Marcone was attacked, and that this was in response to Mab declaring Harry to be her Emissary in this case. Note also that in this WoJ he says (emphasis mine):
--- Quote ---The first are just the newer gruffs, those most recent from being Changelings. They attacked Harry simply because Mab declared that she had chosen him as her emissary.
--- End quote ---
This essentially means that Mab made the first move.
b) At the Shedd, Harry realizes what is going on, flings Nicodemus into a wall and runs inside the descending uber-circle, but first has time to smash Namshiel with a soul-hand a couple of times. Nic has shown that he has pretty good powers of recuperation, and yet he doesn't make it inside the Pentagram on time. In fact, Tessa even comments about it. You'd think Nic could have made it back in time...
What I find further interesting is that Nic doesn't even try to run interference on the outside. I mean, you've got wounded Gard and Hendricks (whom they need to capture for torture purposes -- to convince Marcone to take up a coin), and even two juicy Knights. Sure, Nicodemus is a cautious fellow, but it didn't stop him from flying back to the train to kill attack Michael back in Death Masks.
To me this suggests that the conversation with Harry in the Shedd really shocked Nic to the core. All of a sudden, he realizes that something else is going on, and maybe he is being played somehow. Consequently, he quietly hedges his bets and exists the scene.
I realize this doesn't automatically mean that Mab is calling the shots (Nicodemus has also just realized that the Black Court has infiltrated his ranks), but...
On to the next point.
2) What advantage does Mab get by choosing Harry as Emissary?
Would Harry really have gone and tried to save Marcone if Mab hadn't chosen him to be Emissary (with the Archive being brought in, etc.)? If the answer is "yes", then why did she choose him in the first place? Having Harry as Emissary only adds on the apparent liability of causing Summer's goons to start chasing him, followed by the necessity of removing Fire from his arsenal of weapons.
Some thoughts:
a) Would Harry have been able to call in the Archive to arbitrate without the threat of Mab removing permission for the White Council to use the "ways"?
b) Would Harry have even moved to save Marcone if not coerced by Mab? The conversation he has with Thomas shows he might not have.
c) Even if Harry intended to investigate the building, note that he wasn't aware that Marcone was actually inside the building during the attack until Mab showed him in the ice-movie she made. He might not have moved quickly enough, maybe even stopped at Mrs. Demeter's "Marcone is busy" routine.
Then there is also this quote from the book that need to be resolved:
--- Quote ---I didn’t want to think too hard about that, and I didn’t want to openly agree with her, either. So instead I nodded at the patch of ground where the sculptures had been. “Who took Marcone?”
“I do not know. That is one reason I chose you, Emissary. You have a gift for finding what is lost.”
“If you want me to do this for you, I’m going to need to ask you some questions,” I said.
Mab glanced up, as if consulting the stars through the still-falling snow. “Time, time, time. Will there never be an end to it?” She shook her head. “Wizard child, the hour has nearly passed. I have duties upon which to attend-as do you. You should rise and leave this place immediately.”
--- End quote ---
The simple explanation here is that Mab really doesn't know who took Marcone, but I find it hard to believe that with all her information-gathering resources she couldn't figure it out something about the attackers.
Examples:
a) Usage of an uber-pentegram that Harry ultimately calculates would require an arch-angel to empower.
b) She could see inside the building the Marcone was hiding in, you'd think she'd be able to see the inside of the car he was taken in.
c) Smell of hellfire -- big giveaway.
Note also that when Harry wants to ask more questions, she brushes him off with the gruff threat (not that those gruff can pose any threat while Mab is standing right there).
Thing is, Mab cannot lie, so maybe she doesn't know exactly who took Marcone. I'll bet she has a darn good guess though.
-->
To me, the takeaway is that if we assume that Mab is the one calling the shots, then somehow, getting the Archive involved must be part of the plan.
3) The Hob attack
The Hob attack is another weird event. On the face of it, it seems like an attempt to abduct or kill the Archive, but in fact, I find it hard to believe that gang of Hobs would be a reasonable threat to her. This is after all a being that is at least as powerful as one of the Faerie Ladies (according to the underestimation of the Warden files), and we see her hold off a horde of Denarians without much trouble. Add to this Kincaid and Luccio, (and possibly also Harry and Michael - Mab must be keeping tabs on her Emissary), and using a bunch of Hobs for such an operation seems downright stupid -- which Mab is not. At the very last resort, Ivy could retreat into the Nevernever...
Thus, I suggest that if Mab really wanted to kill the Archive, she could (and would) have easily assembled a way more powerful force (e.g. sending Santa to abduct the child Archive would have been a cool twist), one that would have a better chance at overpowering the Archive and her protectors..
So if the Hob attack was not meant to kill the Archive, what was its purpose?
One possible answer is that all this is simply "warning shot" for the Archive. Sending a bunch of Hobs to attack her is essentially Mab's way of telling her "Someone is up to no good. Take extra precautions." One could even say that those clothes thrown around the aquarium to obscure Ivy's smell is a precuation taken by Kincaid as a direct result of this obscure warning.
4) The Shedd
I've already mentioned Nic's tardiness, but here's another interestingly shaped puzzle piece:
Uriel gives Harry access to Soulfire in this scene (presumably as a reward for resisting Lash), but we need to remember that the only reason he could intervene in this manner on the first place is because Hell had already intevened in the form of the uber-pentegram. In fact, if you take events in strict linear time, the Soulfire-hand takes place before the second uber-pentegram actually materializes, and so this intervention has to "counterbalance" the first pentegram (the one used to capture Marcone).
Basically it boils down to this: If Mab wants her future Knight to get access to soulfire, she needs to offer enough bait in front of the Denarians to entice them to break certain cosmic laws -- thus allowing Uriel to counterbalance them with the offer of Soulfire. Good enough motive for Mab to set all this up?
Another interesting point about the Shedd is that it seems that Harry actually messed up here by charging into the Circle. Consider that the uber-pentagram couldn't stay up that long; in our timeline it comes down maybe seconds after the Archive is abducted (remember also that Denarians express a worry onscreen that might not be able to find Ivy in time). If:
a) Harry had never realized Nic was stalling him.
b) Harry had not gotten up the nerve to charge into the Circle.
c) Harry had the sense to stay hidden longer and not take a cheap shot at Tessa.
d) Ivy didn't care about Harry enough to save him at the expense of her freedom --
Kincaid and Ivy might have been able to run out the time on the Circle and Ivy would never have been abducted. Once the Circle came down, it would have been a BAD DAY to be a Denarian...
Basically, Harry's good intentions -- i.e. his humanity messed up here.
5)The Island
There are a bunch of interesting things that happen on the Island - not the least of which is the encounter with "Eldest", but I'd like to focus on Harry's "Second Sight" starts coming on, the indication that the Island will be important to his future.
Take a look at this WoJ:
--- Quote ---How strong is Demonreach compared to Mab, Nicodemus, and all the other antagonists Harry faces?
That’s depending on where you stand. Like literally your GPS coordinates. If you’re in the right spot, don’t mess with Demonreach, and if you’re not, who cares. He’s one of those situations. If you want to go out to that island and play, you better bring your A game, is the way it works out.
--- End quote ---
...It almost sounds like Demonreach could win an arm-wrestling contest with MAB if she ever came to visit.
Given that Harry has just found out that Demonreach will be important to his future, I think it makes sense that Demonreach also got some indication that Harry was an important figure in its future at the same time...
Demonreach as an ally (through her future Winter Knight) is certainly a plus for Mab.
EDIT:
Here's another interesting point: If the Denarian's original plan was only to abduct Marcone, they didn't really need to build that holding cell on the island. Thus, if one of Mab's original goals was to introduce Harry to Demonreach, dangling Archive-shaped bait in front of the Denarians is the perfect way do so. It is the only place in the area that would have the ley-line confluence to be able to build a cell to hold her for any long period of time. Under Mab's original plan, Ivy would have escaped being captured the Shedd, and then she and Harry would have traveled to the island to free Marcone.
"Mr. Dresden please meet Demonreach. Demonreach please meet Dresden."
------------------------------------------------------------>
Let's put all these points together into some coherent narrative:
------------------------------------------------------------>
1) Ever since the events of PG, Mab has been trying to gather allies, gain power against the BC, and get revenge on those who invaded her realm.
2) She knows that the Denarians have long been concocting a plan to abduct Marcone and give him a coin (maybe once he became a Freeholder?). The notion of capturing Ivy is not in their plans yet. So she makes her move.
3) Mab chooses Harry as emissary - hours before the actual attack takes place. Maybe just as Demeter tells them about the safe house. Using a super-pentegram is still not in the picture.
4) Now that Harry is emissary, the Denarians realize that they have a chance of bagging Ivy as well.
5) They hastly change their plans. The uber-pentegram is not strictly needed to capture someone like Marcone, but they decide to use it anyway - to test it out before using it on Ivy. It's a last minute change to the plan, but Nic feels the risk is worth prize.
6) Thus, in the initial parley with Harry (when Tessa offers him mantis-smex), the Denarians only "fake attack" (good acting there, sacrificing Akariel...). The real intention is to get Harry to call in mediation. Note that Tessa is very careful to mention the Accords a number of times -- all the more to plant the idea in Harry's head to call in the Archive.
7) Mab tries to warn the Archive that the Denarians are after her by sacrificing some troops. It's a simple "WARNING" sign from Mab. Kincaid and Ivy take extra pecautions (such as laying clothes everywhere). Unfortunatly, Kincaid neglects to pack claymore mines.
8 ) At the Shedd, Nic suddenly realizes that his plan is compromised. From this point on, he begins hedging his bets (staying back).
9) The fact that the Denarians took the bait and broke the rules testing the pentegram on Marcone, means that Uriel gets to give Harry access to soulfire. Mab dances a jig.
10) The attack on Ivy goes down, but instead of failing - with the Archive proceeding to pulverise the Denarians in retaliation (as Mab intended), Harry steps in and essentially messes everything up and Ivy gets taken. Bad for Mab, but...
11) Harry goes to the island to rescue Ivy, and in the process Demonreach notices him -- more potential power for Mab's future Knight.
12) The Archive gets rescued after having been abused, holding an even stronger grudge against the Denarians. Another ally for Mab in the fight against the Black Council.
13) Mab WINS.
---------------
Final note: read this WoJ, see if it fits:
--- Quote ---The thing is that Mab never really figures Dresden quite right. She never gets it right when she tries to predict what he will do. But Small Favor turned out really well for her.
--- End quote ---
Makes you think, doesn't it?
Elegast:
Note that this answer was written before CD, so the existence of Nemesis was not known.
--- Quote ---Instead, consider the notion of trying to get Mab to do what you want. Yes, she is predictable (i.e. no free will), but then so is that world-champion-chess-playing-computer-program. Sure, if you study the algorithms it uses you can predict what it might do at any given position, but lets see you beat it at a game of chess.... With Mab it is much worse. Not only do you need to be able to understand her thought-processes in an intimate manner, you also need access to every piece of information she uses to make those decisions - and she has *lots* of ways of gathering information.
Thus, if it's a choice between Mab being played, or Mab playing a game on someone else -- my money is on Mab. If you limit the choice to "Denarians playing Mab" or "Mab playing the Denarians", I certainly know who I'm betting on. The only way I could see Mab being played is if was someone like Titania or an Archangel playing on the other side. I personally believe Titania is working hand in hand with Mab, but that is a subject for a different post (see here for my thoughts on that issue).
--- End quote ---
True. But remember that Lucifer is involved. He could outsmart Mab, or at least feel smart enough to try.
--- Quote --- a) Harry notes (end of chapter 7), that the first set of gruffs were sent by Titania hours before Marcone was attacked, and that this was in response to Mab declaring Harry to be her Emissary in this case. Note also that in this WoJ he says (emphasis mine):
Quote
The first are just the newer gruffs, those most recent from being Changelings. They attacked Harry simply because Mab declared that she had chosen him as her emissary.
This essentially means that Mab made the first move.
--- End quote ---
It shows at least that she knew something was about to happen.
Two other explanation:
* she can see the future
* she sees all the denarians converging (we know that there are at least two teams usually), so something big is about to happen. It may an opportunity to take revenge
--- Quote ---b) At the Shedd, Harry realizes what is going on, flings Nicodemus into a wall and runs inside the descending uber-circle, but first has time to smash Namshiel with a soul-hand a couple of times. Nic has shown that he has pretty good powers of recuperation, and yet he doesn't make it inside the Pentagram on time. In fact, Tessa even comments about it. You'd think Nic could have made it back in time...
What I find further interesting is that Nic doesn't even try to run interference on the outside. I mean, you've got wounded Gard and Hendricks (whom they need to capture for torture purposes -- to convince Marcone to take up a coin), and even two juicy Knights. Sure, Nicodemus is a cautious fellow, but it didn't stop him from flying back to the train to kill attack Michael back in Death Masks.
To me this suggests that the conversation with Harry in the Shedd really shocked Nic to the core. All of a sudden, he realizes that something else is going on, and maybe he is being played somehow. Consequently, he quietly hedges his bets and exists the scene.
--- End quote ---
Yes. "shocked Nic to the core" is the proper term.
Now I have a theory. We know that there is a secret conspiracy among the denarians. We know that Lucifer is using his strength during SmF. I think Lucifer may be running a con on Anduriel/Nick. Or at least I think Nick suspected it (remember who was the guy who trapped the Fallen into the coins?)
--- Quote ---To me, the takeaway is that if we assume that Mab is the one calling the shots, then somehow, getting the Archive involved must be part of the plan.
--- End quote ---
Unless she's forced to act to upheld the Accords:
--- Quote ---“The Accords have been breached. A challenge must be lodged. An Emissary summoned. As a Warden”—she gasped for a moment, and then fumbled the glue into place—“you have the authority to call a challenge.”
--- End quote ---
Then Mab could be predictable: one could predict that she would be forced to act (she gave her word), then that in the town of Chicago she would chose Harry as Emissary (safe bet) , who himself would choose the Archive as arbiter.
--- Quote ---To me, the takeaway is that if we assume that Mab is the one calling the shots, then somehow, getting the Archive involved must be part of the plan.
--- End quote ---
Agreed.
--- Quote ---3) The Hob attack
The Hob attack is another weird event. On the face of it, it seems like an attempt to abduct or kill the Archive, but in fact, I find it hard to believe that gang of Hobs would be a reasonable threat to her. This is after all a being that is at least as powerful as one of the Faerie Ladies (according to the underestimation of the Warden files), and we see her hold off a horde of Denarians without much trouble. Add to this Kincaid and Luccio, (and possibly also Harry and Michael - Mab must be keeping tabs on her Emissary), and using a bunch of Hobs for such an operation seems downright stupid -- which Mab is not. At the very last resort, Ivy could retreat into the Nevernever...
Thus, I suggest that if Mab really wanted to kill the Archive, she could (and would) have easily assembled a way more powerful force (e.g. sending Santa to abduct the child Archive would have been a cool twist), one that would have a better chance at overpowering the Archive and her protectors..
So if the Hob attack was not meant to kill the Archive, what was its purpose?
One possible answer is that all this is simply "warning shot" for the Archive. Sending a bunch of Hobs to attack her is essentially Mab's way of telling her "Someone is up to no good. Take extra precautions." One could even say that those clothes thrown around the aquarium to obscure Ivy's smell is a precuation taken by Kincaid as a direct result of this obscure warning.
--- End quote ---
Agreed.
--- Quote --- Kincaid and Ivy might have been able to run out the time on the Circle and Ivy would never have been abducted. Once the Circle came down, it would have been a BAD DAY to be a Denarian...
Basically, Harry's good intentions -- i.e. his humanity messed up here.
--- End quote ---
That's interesting. Especially as I believe after GS and Uriel comments, that a Fallen could predict such a reaction. Remember Uriel comments in the Warrior about Archangels predicting human behavior. But Mab may not be able to: a WOJ says she does not really get Harry. That may be the moment where the Fallen thought they could outsmart Mab.
--- Quote ---1) Ever since the events of PG, Mab has been trying to gather allies, gain power against the BC, and get revenge on those who invaded her realm.
2) She knows that the Denarians have long been concocting a plan to abduct Marcone and give him a coin (maybe once he became a Freeholder?). The notion of capturing Ivy is not in their plans yet. So she makes her move.
3) Mab chooses Harry as emissary - hours before the actual attack takes place. Maybe just as Demeter tells them about the safe house. Using a super-pentegram is still not in the picture.
4) Now that Harry is emissary, the Denarians realize that they have a chance of bagging Ivy as well.
5) They hastly change their plans. The uber-pentegram is not strictly needed to capture someone like Marcone, but they decide to use it anyway - to test it out before using it on Ivy. It's a last minute change to the plan, but Nic feels the risk is worth prize.
6) Thus, in the initial parley with Harry (when Tessa offers him mantis-smex), the Denarians only "fake attack" (good acting there, sacrificing Akariel...). The real intention is to get Harry to call in mediation. Note that Tessa is very careful to mention the Accords a number of times -- all the more to plant the idea in Harry's head to call in the Archive.
7) Mab tries to warn the Archive that the Denarians are after her by sacrificing some troops. It's a simple "WARNING" sign from Mab. Kincaid and Ivy take extra pecautions (such as laying clothes everywhere). Unfortunatly, Kincaid neglects to pack claymore mines.
8 ) At the Shedd, Nic suddenly realizes that his plan is compromised. From this point on, he begins hedging his bets (staying back).
9) The fact that the Denarians took the bait and broke the rules testing the pentegram on Marcone, means that Uriel gets to give Harry access to soulfire. Mab dances a jig.
10) The attack on Ivy goes down, but instead of failing - with the Archive proceeding to pulverise the Denarians in retaliation (as Mab intended), Harry steps in and essentially messes everything up and Ivy gets taken. Bad for Mab, but...
11) Harry goes to the island to rescue Ivy, and in the process Demonreach notices him -- more potential power for Mab's future Knight.
12) The Archive gets rescued after having been abused, holding an even stronger grudge against the Denarians. Another ally for Mab in the fight against the Black Council.
13) Mab WINS.
--- End quote ---
That seems right. However I doubt the part Mab planning for Harry to get soulfire, and it fails to give an explanation for Lucifer's action. I highly doubt he's a cosmic cashing machine that the denarians can use at will. He must have agreed to take part in the scheme. He knows that any action from his part will mean a reaction from the other side. Would you let Anduriel call the shots? I believe he takes extreme care not to waste his power, knowing that Uriel won't.
Here is my altered timeline:
1) Ever since the events of PG, Mab has been trying to gather allies, gain power against the BC, and get revenge on those who invaded her realm.
2) She knows that the Denarians have long been concocting a plan to abduct Marcone and give him a coin (maybe once he became a Freeholder?). The notion of capturing Ivy is not in their plans yet. So she makes her move.
3) Mab chooses Harry as emissary - hours before the actual attack takes place. Maybe just as Demeter tells them about the safe house. Using a super-pentegram is still not in the picture.
4) Now that Harry is emissary, the Denarians realize that they have a chance of bagging Ivy as well.
4)bis They conctact HQ for additionnal power, request accepted.
5) They hastly change their plans. The uber-pentegram is not strictly needed to capture someone like Marcone, but they decide to use it anyway - to test it out before using it on Ivy. It's a last minute change to the plan, but Nic feels the risk is worth prize.
6) Thus, in the initial parley with Harry (when Tessa offers him mantis-smex), the Denarians only "fake attack" (good acting there, sacrificing Akariel...). The real intention is to get Harry to call in mediation. Note that Tessa is very careful to mention the Accords a number of times -- all the more to plant the idea in Harry's head to call in the Archive.
7) Mab tries to warn the Archive that the Denarians are after her by sacrificing some troops. It's a simple "WARNING" sign from Mab. Kincaid and Ivy take extra pecautions (such as laying clothes everywhere). Unfortunatly, Kincaid neglects to pack claymore mines.
8 ) At the Shedd, Nic suddenly realizes that his plan is compromised. From this point on, he begins hedging his bets (staying back).
9) The fact that the Denarians took the bait and broke the rules testing the pentegram on Marcone, means that Uriel gets to give Harry access to soulfire. Mab dances a jig.
10) The attack on Ivy goes down, but instead of failing - with the Archive proceeding to pulverise the Denarians in retaliation (as Mab intended), Harry steps in and essentially messes everything up and Ivy gets taken (as Lucifer predicted). Bad for Mab, but...
11) Harry goes to the island to rescue Ivy, and in the process Demonreach notices him -- more potential power for Mab's future Knight.
12) The Archive gets rescued after having been abused, holding an even stronger grudge against the Denarians. Another ally for Mab in the fight against the Black Council.
13) Mab WINS (thanks to Uriel).
The greatest uncertainty is: did the denarians planned for the Archive to be taken from the very beginning?
If no, I believe it goes like this:
* the denarians decide to attack Marcone
* Mab sees an opportunity to have the Archive crushing the denarians
* Lucifer sees a miscalculation in Mab's plan
* Uriel react to Lucifer, Mab wins anyway
If yes:
* the denarians (with Lucifer approval) decide to attack Marcone, knowing that it will draw Mab, and then the Archive
* Mab is forced to act to upheld the Accords
* She picks Harry, knowing that he will pick the Archive, but she miscalculates.
* Uriel react to Lucifer, Mab wins anyway
Vairelome:
First of all, excellent work, knnn. This is a masterful layout of the behind-the-scenes plotting in Small Favor. I'll come back to this thread when I have more time, but I wanted to comment on two specific points:
--- Quote from: knnn on April 27, 2012, 04:10:27 AM ---7) Mab tries to warn the Archive that the Denarians are after her by sacrificing some troops. It's a simple "WARNING" sign from Mab. Kincaid and Ivy take extra pecautions (such as laying clothes everywhere). Unfortunatly, Kincaid neglects to pack claymore mines.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure this point is solid, though it's more of an intuitive "feel" reaction from me than logic at this point. I think the Hob attack might be a bit more significant than an exploratory jab at the Archive to make sure she's on full alert.
--- Quote from: knnn on April 27, 2012, 04:10:27 AM ---8 ) At the Shedd, Nic suddenly realizes that his plan is compromised. From this point on, he begins hedging his bets (staying back).
--- End quote ---
I emphatically agree with this take on Nicodemus's internal thought processes. Your description of Nicodemus's probable plans and movements are dead-on in agreement with my take on his character.
Extra Point--One interpretation of Mab's response ("I don't know.") to Harry's question ("Who took Marcone?") might be that Mab knows the Denarians were directly involved, but thinks that they were acting as the agents or pawns of the BC. She could be saying that she didn't know who was ultimately responsible for sending the Denarians in Marcone's direction, with the hope that Harry will trace the linkages past the obvious Denarian involvement. He doesn't, but as you said, Mab wins anyway.
Paladino:
Really interesting post Knnn. I got say I agree with it.
Just that the fake attack on Gard and Hendricks, they didn't sacrifice the denarian on purpose, I think Harry and Thomas surprised them with their competence.
--- Quote ---The first are just the newer gruffs, those most recent from being Changelings. They attacked Harry simply because Mab declared that she had chosen him as her emissary.
--- End quote ---
Recent changelings?? Really?? Someone would choose to become a goatman??
TheCuriousFan:
--- Quote from: Paladino on April 27, 2012, 11:19:06 AM ---Really interesting post Knnn. I got say I agree with it.
Just that the fake attack on Gard and Hendricks, they didn't sacrifice the denarian on purpose, I think Harry and Thomas surprised them with their competence.
Recent changelings?? Really?? Someone would choose to become a goatman??
--- End quote ---
Not everyone sees something wrong with the idea of being an immortal superhuman goatman. :P
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