Zone attacks as maneuvers?

[Mr. Death]

It isn't only the +2 invoke that worries me, it's the invoke for effect that is the true power of the aspect, and that many invoke for effects could be incredibly powerful.

But the scale's going to be different--each invoke for effect on an individual is only going to affect that individual, rather than radically alter the whole playing field.

Also since we can use appropriate aspects as power sources what's to prevent me from laying down a zone-wide "Smoldering" aspect on five guys, tagging the first four to draw the ambient heat to power my spell (putting it up in the 10-12 shift range, which is controllable) and then tagging the last one to add to my control and hit one of them for 24 shifts? Or if I spend some of those shifts to make it zone-wide and tone it down a bit (so that I don't have to tag to control it) and hit all of them for 18-20 shifts.

I think what he meant was that you wouldn't hit all of them for 18-20 shifts, but you'd hit each of them for your base power+2 individually. As for the other way, hitting one for 24 shifts...it just seems like kind of a waste, honestly. Two big spells to take out one guy, using up the tags on the other four in the process? Still leaves you with four totally-healthy guys, who each get a shot at you in between both of your spells; that's 9 turns to your two, with the only thing to show for it being one extremely taken-out dude.

[sinker]

Oh, the big bad mother of them all just occurred to me. I can tag to increase the control roll which will receive the full bonus, even if it doesn't apply to individual attacks. So Ten guys who are "Smoldering" (doesn't even matter if they are enemies or allies) I pull off some of the heat to power the spell, let's go with five of the tags, giving me 10 shifts of power, plus whatever I put into it, let's say 9 and I throw two of those into making it zone-wide. Now I tag the other five aspects and add 10 to my control roll. I roll a 9 (easily done with foci, and maybe a fate point) making this a 17 shift zone-wide attack at 9 shifts to attack, 25 shifts total, all by the book.

[devonapple]

The following item is covered in the "Word of Fred" thread in the Resources board:
On the subject of creating and tagging multiple Aspects on multiple targets, usually in a Zonewide situation:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,26459.msg1126866.html#msg1126866

Highlight:
"But where there is no debate about compel vs. for effect, yeah - a tag is a tag is a tag. 10 NPCs with a maneuver put on them at the same time = 10 free tags" - iago

[sinker]

But the scale's going to be different--each invoke for effect on an individual is only going to affect that individual, rather than radically alter the whole playing field.
I think what he meant was that you wouldn't hit all of them for 18-20 shifts, but you'd hit each of them for your base power+2 individually.

Word of Fred on that one is that you can tag an aspect (any aspect as long as it's appropriate) to add shifts to the power of the spell. This would add to the spell without increasing the amount of stress received for calling up power, and since the power is the spell it applies to all targets of the spell.

[Orladdin]

Word of Fred on that one is that you can tag an aspect (any aspect as long as it's appropriate) to add shifts to the power of the spell. This would add to the spell without increasing the amount of stress received for calling up power, and since the power is the spell it applies to all targets of the spell.

Yeah, I think you nailed it here.  I think I like your interpretation better, too, given the awesome description:

Oh, the big bad mother of them all just occurred to me. I can tag to increase the control roll which will receive the full bonus, even if it doesn't apply to individual attacks. So Ten guys who are "Smoldering" (doesn't even matter if they are enemies or allies) I pull off some of the heat to power the spell, let's go with five of the tags, giving me 10 shifts of power, plus whatever I put into it, let's say 9 and I throw two of those into making it zone-wide. Now I tag the other five aspects and add 10 to my control roll. I roll a 9 (easily done with foci, and maybe a fate point) making this a 17 shift zone-wide attack at 9 shifts to attack, 25 shifts total, all by the book.

That just feels more like its supposed to work.  And you are def. on to something with it only being mentioned in two of three places in this case.

Your way seems more intuitive with a heated zone or a windy zone, but when applying liquids or powders, having the aspect on the zone instead of the people who were in it at the time seems counterintuitive *shrug* just a narrative system glitch, I guess.

I'll be ruling this way from here on.