The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Dark influences on Harry
prince lotore:
Considering how wardens have a cut the head off first and ask questions and harry was in the middle of trying to stop the dark hallow I think harry actually followed warden procedure on this one
dimpwnc:
--- Quote from: prince lotore on March 20, 2012, 07:59:58 PM ---Considering how wardens have a cut the head off first and ask questions and harry was in the middle of trying to stop the dark hallow I think harry actually followed warden procedure on this one
--- End quote ---
In terms of whether Harry is darkened by the experience, I'm not sure how much it matters, in the end, whether he objectively had the right to do what he did. He certainly believes that what he did was justified ("'If you had it to do again, would you?' 'Twice as hard.'") but that doesn't stop him from feeling haunted and stained by the "cold" killings.
wyltok:
--- Quote from: Richard_Chilton on March 20, 2012, 07:47:59 PM ---As for it being justified - Marcone has been just as big as a threat since Storm Front. Having soul gazed the man, Harry knows that Marcone could kill Harry and feel nothing. Since sometime between Turn Coat and Changes, Harry has known that Marcone builds anti-Harry death traps.
But rather than kill the threat, Harry saves Marcone in Fool Moon. Rather than react to the anti-Harry death trap, Harry arranges to meet the man on neutral territory.
[...]
Richard
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I'm not sure I follow this line of logic. You seem to be assuming that everything that's dangerous is also a threat, and should be dealt with using a pre-emptive strike. Marcone has made it patently clear that while he has the ability to kill Harry, he doesn't have the motivation to do so. The one time Harry thought Marcone was out to kill him, in fact, Harry loaded up with all his magic and went to confront the man directly (at the Varsity Club during Storm Front).
It's as simple as that. Harry knows that Marcone has no reason to kill Harry, ergo, Harry does not fear Marcone killing him. I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that your objection to this logic is that if Marcone ever does have a reason to want to kill Harry, he'll just go ahead and try to kill and Harry without bothering to make sure Harry is aware that a reason no exists. To wait until a man whose morals are so contrary to Harry's own stumbles upon a reason to kill Harry does seem a bit foolish on Harry's part, no?
Thing is, Harry has lived all his life living under the risk of people stronger than him finding reason to want to kill him. Heck, his father-figure decided one day randomly to want to kill him and sent a demon after him (or so Harry thought for most of his adult life)! Add to that Lea (then Mab), Morgan (then the Merlin), Bianca (then the Red Court), etcetera... frankly, by this point, Harry has to be inmune to the idea that just because someone may someday decide he's worth killing means he should kill them now in a pre-emptive strike of some sort.
Richard_Chilton:
--- Quote from: wyltok on March 20, 2012, 08:48:41 PM ---I'm not sure I follow this line of logic.
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That might be because I'm poking holes at someone elses "it was justified" theory. If shooting Cassius was justified then killing Marcone is more than justified. Personally, I see Harry having options with Cassius and deciding to kill him - to murder Cassius in cold blood. At the time Harry sees the killing as the right thing to do, but later he has problems dealing with the fact that he killed in cold blood.
--- Quote from: wyltok on March 20, 2012, 08:48:41 PM ---You seem to be assuming that everything that's dangerous is also a threat, and should be dealt with using a pre-emptive strike.
--- End quote ---
No, just pointing out that since day one in Storm Front, Marcone has been a bigger threat than Cassius was at the moment that Harry killed him. If people feel that Harry killing Cassius was the right thing to do then Marcone should have died as well.
Instead, Harry repeatedly risked his life to save Marcone in Fool Moon. When Harry got to the estate and saw the downed wolves Harry knew that Marcone now saw Harry as a threat and may have already sent out countless hitmen, but Harry still did what he had to in order to save Marcone. The "smart thing" to do then would have been to try to kill Marcone and the FBI agents rather than to try to take people alive. But Harry didn't do that then because Harry is not a cold blooded killer.
At least he wasn't until he murdered Cassius.
And that mundane murder has affected him as much (if not more) than the supernatural darkness that Harry has encountered (which is why it is on topic). Because Harry knew that he had a choice and that he decided to kill a fellow human being.
And the fact that he would make that same choice again, that's why Harry is slowly getting used to the self image of "I am someone who kills in cold blood when I think I should" - which is a dark place to be. Thing is, that if he hadn't had time to get used to that image, I doubt that he could have killed Susan.
Richard
wyltok:
--- Quote from: Richard_Chilton on March 20, 2012, 09:40:53 PM ---No, just pointing out that since day one in Storm Front, Marcone has been a bigger threat than Cassius was at the moment that Harry killed him. If people feel that Harry killing Cassius was the right thing to do then Marcone should have died as well.
--- End quote ---
This is what I mean. Is Marcone more dangerous then Cassius? Certainly! Is he as big a threat? Nah. He has no motivation (yet) to kill Harry, and they both know it. Heck, he knows the guy's got the soul of a tiger. Tigers don't kill indiscriminately, and neither will Marcone.
Cassius, meanwhile, still has at least one year of life left, and has made it patently clear he'll dedicate it to chasing after Dresden. He's shown himself to be willing to go through Dresden's friends to do it, too (he tracked Harry through the use of Butter's hair). There is no question that he will hunt down Harry and his friends again. These are all things Harry knows Marcone will not do (for now). These are all reasons why I don't see how it's the smart thing for Harry to kill Marcone.
--- Quote from: Richard_Chilton on March 20, 2012, 09:40:53 PM ---Instead, Harry repeatedly risked his life to save Marcone in Fool Moon. When Harry got to the estate and saw the downed wolves Harry knew that Marcone now saw Harry as a threat and may have already sent out countless hitmen, but Harry still did what he had to in order to save Marcone.
--- End quote ---
Keep in mind, the very first thing Marcone says in that scene with the downed wolves is "I want Dresden alive". He then goes on to threaten Denton when he sets out to kill Harry after the Soul Gaze. Marcone also did the same thing when Harry was captured by the lycanthropes. This is the part that really confuses me in your argument: somehow you went from a Marcone that spent the whole novel telling other people "Don't kill Dresden" to Harry reaching the conclusion "Marcone wants me dead".
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