The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Questions
Paladino:
--- Quote from: DragonEyes on March 18, 2012, 11:33:22 AM ---You may be right, but based on the evidence, we can only conclude that the Whisper pushed him into both decisions. The phrasing of the whisper was to show that he was weak and a failure, but the decision to kill himself only came as part of concluding that he would have to accept becoming a monster. He had to make both decisions together.
Even if you argue that Molly's memory monkeying gave him a chance to make the same choice again, he took much longer to come to that conclusion, weighed his options and finally arrived at the same point. The whisper was probably aware of that, but it needed to push Harry into both decisions to get him to commit suicide. Harry wouldn't just kill himself. He'd make his life worth something first, make his death worthwhile. All I'm saying is that Harry needed to decide the one along with the other.
--- End quote ---
The prhasing of the whisper was for him to feel guilty, like he is not good enough. Forcing him to belive that he will probally fail again after he becomes WK and turn in to a monster. And because of that belive he had to kill himself.
He would turn to the WK mantle anyway. He may have pretended to have other choices but he didn't. There was no time to pull a darkhallow powerfull enough, and there was no time to band the denarians together or even if he could, to be sure they would work together or even if they would have enough power to beat the RC.
DragonEyes:
--- Quote from: Paladino on March 19, 2012, 11:35:18 AM ---The prhasing of the whisper was for him to feel guilty, like he is not good enough. Forcing him to belive that he will probally fail again after he becomes WK and turn in to a monster. And because of that belive he had to kill himself.
--- End quote ---
I don't disagree with you at all, but my point is that he had to decide both together, or he'd never have decided to kill himself. Harry wouldn't kill himself without having some way he might succeed. Whenever he's decided to kill himself in the past, there was either a glimmer of hope or at least the impression he could accomplish something. To decide to kill himself, he had to decide to become the Winter Knight, since she couldn't hope to trick a Denarian into letting him die, nor could he undo the deaths that would be needed for a dark hallow. Mab is demonstrably fallable, which made her the logical choice.
The whisper pushed both actions at once, probably with the ultimate goal of convincing him to kill himself, but, counter to what Peregrine said, it was not just the one action.
knnn:
I am not sure I am convinced by that argument. Consider that Harry is lying there, spine broken. His daughter is going to die in a few hours and his grandfather along with her (as well as a possible strike against the WC, and others he loves and cares about).
His options:
1. Lie down and do nothing.
2. Find some way to heal himself and try to save her, even if its a suicide run.
Given Harry's previous actions (assault on AT, hiring Kincaid without knowing how to pay him, etc.), which option do you think he would choose?
DragonEyes:
--- Quote from: knnn on March 19, 2012, 12:18:22 PM ---I am not sure I am convinced by that argument. Consider that Harry is lying there, spine broken. His daughter is going to die in a few hours and his grandfather along with her (as well as a possible strike against the WC, and others he loves and cares about).
His options:
1. Lie down and do nothing.
2. Find some way to heal himself and try to save her, even if its a suicide run.
Given Harry's previous actions (assault on AT, hiring Kincaid without knowing how to pay him, etc.), which option do you think he would choose?
--- End quote ---
Are you refering to what he would have done without the whisper? It would be 2.
With the whisper, it was also 2, but with granularity to the decision. To wit, he immediately discarded Uriel as an option, jumped straight to the WK choice, and decided to kill himself at the same time.
Paladino:
--- Quote from: DragonEyes on March 19, 2012, 11:42:45 AM ---I don't disagree with you at all, but my point is that he had to decide both together, or he'd never have decided to kill himself. Harry wouldn't kill himself without having some way he might succeed. Whenever he's decided to kill himself in the past, there was either a glimmer of hope or at least the impression he could accomplish something. To decide to kill himself, he had to decide to become the Winter Knight, since she couldn't hope to trick a Denarian into letting him die, nor could he undo the deaths that would be needed for a dark hallow. Mab is demonstrably fallable, which made her the logical choice.
The whisper pushed both actions at once, probably with the ultimate goal of convincing him to kill himself, but, counter to what Peregrine said, it was not just the one action.
--- End quote ---
I desagree, Harry knew he woudl have to go for power from Mab or another source he didn't like, he alredy had that decided. What he didn't know is what he would do to avoid becoming a monster after that.
It's like this:
I need power, I'll have to take Mab's offer, but and after? What I'm gona do? Well it's all my fault, so I'll just suicide and avoid becoming a monster.
This whisper triggered how he was going to do his deal, not the deal itself.
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