Ambush, Backstab, One Shot, One Kill Scenarios

[KnightKD]

Another situation ripped from the last session:

The characters are in an infiltration/Stealth sort of mission, under a nice veil and sneaking up on the bad guys. They've got inhuman strength and magic weapons. The bad guys are tough supernatural types, but nothing uber special. Stealth rolls are successfully made, baddy alertness rolls are failed....

It was still practically impossible to take them out in one shot. Between stress tracks and all the consequences available, it just wasn't likely, even with a couple maneuvers to put "Blind to the danger" and "Easy target" on them.

In the end, because it felt right and I didn't like the idea of wasting such a sweet assassination scene, I let the characters take them down with one solid hit, No alarm raised, etc. etc.

I suppose you could just call it a concession, but what enemy in his right mind would concede to being assassinated, and why would the characters want anything less? Trust me, in this particular scenario they wouldn't.

How would others have handled it?

[UmbraLux]

How would others have handled it?

Whether it's a one shot or not is the difference between a well prepared ambush and a slapped together mess.  With time, PCs will be able to set up at least one aspect per exchange of preparation.  Two* if they're creative & lucky.  At that rate, even one exchange of setup by four PCs nets you four to eight aspects - +8 to +16 on the ambush.  It's a +24 to +48 after just three exchanges of prep.

It's really not hard to set up a ambush that will take the target out in one attack.  It just takes a small amount of time.

*One maneuver per exchange gets one aspect per person, add a declaration for the second.

[EdgeOfDreams]

It depends on exactly how tough these "tough supernatural types are."

First, let's establish a baseline target with 0 endurance and no special powers or stunts.  To take them out it one blow, you must deal at least 15 stress (Mild + Moderate + Severe + length 2 stress track + 1) or 23 if Extreme consequences are taken into account (in my games, nameless mooks NEVER take Extremes, and often don't even take Severes before they go down, depending on the difficulty I designed the encounter to be).

So, if that bad guy is defending from zero due to ambush, and the player is attack with a +5 skill, two maneuvers to tag, and a Weapon rating of 5 (from strength + a big sword or whatever), that's 14 stress on an average roll.  Add one more tag, fate point, or bit of luck on the dice, and you've got an instantaneous kill.

Now, most worthy opponents will have Endurance scores and often Toughness powers.  This can increase the stress needed for a one-shot kill by anywhere from 1 to 13 (e.g. Endurance 5 adds a Mild and 2 Stress, plus Mythic Toughness gives armor 3 and 6 extra Stress boxes).

What do these numbers all mean?  To me, they mean that an assassin who takes time to catch his opponent unaware and set up maneuvers CAN do a one-shot assassination reasonably well (it's even easier if they take a stunt that increases their damage output against ambushed targets).  Against something with Inhuman or better Toughness powers, though, you probably will need either the Catch or a large stack of fate points to make it happen.

Is it "too hard" to do a one-shot assassination in this game? Maybe, maybe not.  I feel like the difficulty of it is just about right for a game that's more about narrative and overcoming obstacles than it is about gleeful murder.  And remember that even a target who survives such an attack will now have three or more consequences ripe to be tagged, invoked for effect, or compeled against them, making them very very unlikely to survive the next attack.

The easiest way to adjust this, if it bothers you, is to remember that nameless mooks often don't use all their consequence slots.  That's not because they don't care about living - it's because narratively, they're just not that big a deal in the overall story.  Named villains, on the other hand, shouldn't be taken down in one shot.  In my mind, dealing multiple consequences in one attack is plenty of reward for a PC who manages to sneak up on the big bad guy.

[Sanctaphrax]

It's actually really easy to assassinate people in this game as long you don't target people important to the plot.

You don't get to choose whether you take a consequence when you get hit: the person playing you does. And he may not have your best interests at heart. If you aren't a PC or a major villain, he'll probably just shrug and not even take a mild.

[UmbraLux]

Also, you can decide to concede prior to actually taking the damage.  If you think the setup is sufficient, just concede and move on.  Which sounds very similar to what you actually did. 

[Richard_Chilton]

You can easily do a surprise takeout of a mook.  They don't take consequences - so any attack that exceeds the mook's Endurance stress track is a takeout.

Taking out a full consequence track NPC is another thing.  The average PC can take 23 levels of stress +/- their defense roll before being taken out.

23+ stress levels in one shot.  That's doable, but that's also the minimum.  High Endurance, any toughness powers, an endurance based stunt, armour - add in any of that and the number goes up.  On the plus side an ambush gives you a lot of time to do navel gazing maneuvers.

But if the guy just has two dots on his endurance track - use a 2 rating weapon with a good skill for your weapon and with a decent roll you've got him.  If the roll isn't that good, then add in a few navel gazing maneuvers and he's gone.

Richard

[EldritchFire]

Another situation ripped from the last session:

The characters are in an infiltration/Stealth sort of mission, under a nice veil and sneaking up on the bad guys. They've got inhuman strength and magic weapons. The bad guys are tough supernatural types, but nothing uber special. Stealth rolls are successfully made, baddy alertness rolls are failed....

It was still practically impossible to take them out in one shot. Between stress tracks and all the consequences available, it just wasn't likely, even with a couple maneuvers to put "Blind to the danger" and "Easy target" on them.

In the end, because it felt right and I didn't like the idea of wasting such a sweet assassination scene, I let the characters take them down with one solid hit, No alarm raised, etc. etc.

I suppose you could just call it a concession, but what enemy in his right mind would concede to being assassinated, and why would the characters want anything less? Trust me, in this particular scenario they wouldn't.

How would others have handled it?

That's exactly how I would have handled it. I mean, the whole point of that scene was to show how bad-ass the PCs are, right? So with that nice stealth roll, I'd call that a manoeuvre, and invoke for effect. What's the effect? BAD ASS PLAYERS, of course!

As others have said, unless they are plot-important, don't assign consequences. If you really want to "do it by the numbers," then that's 3 stress (2 for the base stress boxes +1 to take out) plus any for Toughness and Endurance skill.

However, what you did was completely by the book, too. Invoke for effect! If it'd draw things out unnecessarily, don't do it! Just use the beautiful, beautiful aspects!

-EF

[Becq]

What everyone above me said.

I particularly agree with the importance placed on how important the targets are to the plot vis-a-vis the rules on NPCs and conseqeunces.  If there are a couple of bored mooks on patrol around the main villain's estate, then a well-executed ambush (including some maneuvered aspects) combined with the fact that nameless NPCs don't accept consequences ought to be all that's needed to guarantee one-shot kills.  On the other hand, the main villain should be more resistant to being ganked, otherwise taking him down might end up being less than fully satisfying. 

[admiralducksauce]

Let's not forget that special kind of concession where the PCs DO gank a plot-important character, where the concession is they're "left for dead" or "fall into the river".

[EdgeOfDreams]

Let's not forget that special kind of concession where the PCs DO gank a plot-important character, where the concession is they're "left for dead" or "fall into the river".

As in "He's dead. No one could survive that... right?"

I like it.

[toturi]

I wonder if the characters can be Compelled to accept or deny a concession.

If the PCs do gank an important character and the concession is something like "nobody could have survived that", what if a character has "No loose ends" or similar as an Aspect?

[EdgeOfDreams]

I wonder if the characters can be Compelled to accept or deny a concession.

If the PCs do gank an important character and the concession is something like "nobody could have survived that", what if a character has "No loose ends" or similar as an Aspect?

I've definitely seen characters compelled to give up a fight they clearly can't win and compelled to keep fighting in the face of impossible odds.  It all depends on what best suits the current story and the characters aspects.

Also, remember that when you concede or are taken out, you get a fate point for every consequence taken during the conflict.  This means that conceding after a long painful fight is effectively a two or three fate point self-compel.  If the GM is compelling you to concede, that's just yet another fate point to add to your pile.

[toturi]

I've definitely seen characters compelled to give up a fight they clearly can't win and compelled to keep fighting in the face of impossible odds.  It all depends on what best suits the current story and the characters aspects.

I am not quite sure how your answer relates to my post. The scenario I am describing is when the villain is conceding but the PCs are being compelled not to accept the concession.

[Tedronai]

I'd see an aspect like that being brought up as part of the negotiation of the concession, more often than being invoked or compelled, as part of the determination of whether the concession is 'reasonable'.  It could then either be invoked for the character to notice something 'off' about the 'death', or compelled to induce the character to miss out on other important activities to 'make sure'.

[TheMouse]

The last paragraph on page 328 covers this. Supporting NPCs only take up to Moderate Consequences before you Concede the fight.

You Concede, not the NPCs. So your Concession can perfectly well be, "Yeah, the dude dies. Splat." Because the character is an imaginary person you use as one of many avatars with which to interact with the game world, and the fact that he doesn't want to die doesn't even enter into it.

So do 7+(stress track + armour + extra available Consequence value) stress in one hit, and they go down. By the rules, with no fumbling around. With surprise, some Maneuvers, supernatural strength, and a good weapon, you should be able to manage this within the bounds of the combat system as written.