The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
[Spolers Through GS] Maggie LeFay and the Outsiders
thelordbeans:
Read the OP, haven't read anything else yet, I thought the theory was really cool, and I especially liked the possible Third Eye / Kumori connection.
Anyway, I wanted to mention an idea that I've had a while, in case somebody sees it connecting to the theory in a good way.
The parallel universes that Jim has described and that we will explore (or at least get a taste of) in Mirror Mirror - THAT is the Outside.
AcornArmy:
--- Quote from: thelordbeans on September 04, 2011, 12:02:42 AM ---The parallel universes that Jim has described and that we will explore (or at least get a taste of) in Mirror Mirror - THAT is the Outside.
--- End quote ---
I think that could be it, too. It makes a kind of sense to me.
--- Quote from: LordDresden on September 03, 2011, 10:11:41 PM ---But then, one day, you happen to discuss her with the FBI director, who was also in charge of the FBI back in the day, and his account is totally different, instead of a murderess and a criminal he talks about her being a war protester who hung out with a bad bunch for while, but mentions absolutely nothing about murder, slave trading, or anthing else of the sort...and the time-line of his account conflicts with the other versions.
Don't you think that under those conditions, you'd at least note that discrepency to yourself?! That's the equivalent of where Harry was at the time of the conversation in TC, yet he doesn't even seem to blink at it.
Weird.
--- End quote ---
I refer you to the end of this post, and all of this post.
thelordbeans:
--- Quote from: LordDresden on September 03, 2011, 10:11:41 PM ---The problem is the context of Luccio's comments. That's what makes it so hard to reconcile wiht the other accounts from the other people. You can do it, you can put interpretations on the other versions, and Luccio's, that will make them fit together...but you have to stretch things considerably because of the context.
The kind of 'misguided idealist' that Luccio described isn't the kind that would produce the accounts we get from Nicodemus and Thomas and Lea and Chaunzoggoroth and Eb. It's not Kumori's kind of idealist. Luccio talked about the Wardens being assigned to watch Margaret, and spoke of her disappearing for 5 years to be with Lord Raith, but there was no hint of anything about her being a warlock. At all.
And Harry's reaction is just as weird, which makes me consider the whole conversation weird. Even if what Harry thought he knew was all wrong, it's still what he thought he knew, you'd expect him to react to what Luccio was saying, at least in his own thoughts. But he doesn't.
Imagine for a moment that you've spent your entire adult life combating some ghastly practice, let's say slave trafficing and organ legging and murder. You worked against it as a private citizen in your younger days, and became successful enough at it that the FBI recruited you to do it as an agent. Working to shut down the people doing it, and protect others from them, is what you've pretty much dedicated your life to doing.
Further assume that your mother, who died in childbirth, was as far as you know heavy into that very activity, she was a murderess, a slave trader, an organ legger, she associated with the worst criminals on the Most Wanted List on a regular basis, as far as you knew. Your older brother, who can remember her, gives an account that corroborates this. Some of the criminals you've taken on made references to working with her, some of the older FBI guys around you remember her as well, and their accounts are unpleasant and disturbing and match what you had heard elsewhere.
An old friend of your mother's, who has a psychological block that prevents her from lying, gives you an account that, again, tallies with the bad stuff.
But then, one day, you happen to discuss her with the FBI director, who was also in charge of the FBI back in the day, and his account is totally different, instead of a murderess and a criminal he talks about her being a war protester who hung out with a bad bunch for while, but mentions absolutely nothing about murder, slave trading, or anthing else of the sort...and the time-line of his account conflicts with the other versions.
Don't you think that under those conditions, you'd at least note that discrepency to yourself?! That's the equivalent of where Harry was at the time of the conversation in TC, yet he doesn't even seem to blink at it.
Weird.
--- End quote ---
I don't see any discrepancy between the accounts.
Just look at what people say about Harry!
Luccio (Dead Beat): The Council has been betrayed, Dresden. And you are the most infamous wizard in it. There are many who have spoken out against you. Many who say that you began the war with the Red Court intentionally so that you could create an opportunity to bring about the fall of the Council... I think that you do not realize your own reputation. You have overcome more enemies and battled more evils than most wizards a century your senior. And times are changing. There are more young wizards attaining membership to the Council than ever before--like Ramirez and his companions, there. To them, you are a symbol of defiance to the conservative elements of the Council, and a hero who will risk his life when his principles demand it.
Eldest Gruff (Small Favor): "We hear tales of thee, young wizard... We too like stories about... Underdogs."
And I'm looking for one particular quote that I can't find because I can't remember who said it, but I think it was a girl and she was telling Harry straight to his face the many different things she's heard about him, but she doesn't really care because they can deal anyway
And then there's whatever was said in Side Jobs, which I don't have access to
Harry would have had no reason to think anything strange about Luccio's account beyond what he actually did think: "Oh shit, possible info about my mom incoming!" He knows that every account he has heard or will hear about his mother is just hearsay, and a dangerous witch on bad terms with the White Council and good terms with possibly many nasty creatures with an amazing knowledge of the Nevernever who spent several years missing... is INCREDIBLY mysterious. You can't expect any sort of consistency from that... and actually, we have had quite a bit of consistency
Gman:
My guess about Maggie is she was an idealist who wanted change in the WC. Some may have been doable good ideas, others not so much. She was contacted and recruited by agents of the BC such as King Raith and then told half truths and lies about making the world a better place. By the time she found out the truth she was in too deep and she was going to hunted down from everyone from the Wardens to the Black Council.
LordDresden:
--- Quote from: Mira on September 03, 2011, 10:52:41 PM --- Problem is, Harry knows almost nothing about his mother, he knows from the brief soul gaze with Thomas, Maggie didn't seem like a wicked woman. Harry had a chance to ask Lea questions about his mother, but little information is given.
--- End quote ---
Each one gave a tidbit, but there were several tidbits and they added up to a nasty picture.
--- Quote ---
However bad she appears to be, she never was so far gone that the love of a and for a very good man couldn't redeem her.
--- End quote ---
Which fits well with Harry's psychological romanticism, but doesn't really change what he heard from Chaunzoggoroth, Nicodemus, Thomas, Eb, and Lea. And what they told him did add up to an evil woman.
--- Quote ---
He may just may not be able to come to terms that his mother might have been a monster, hence the non reaction. It was hard enough for him to learn that Eb was the Blackstaff, and at that point in time he didn't know he was his grandfather. Eb has said that Harry is a lot like his mother, but still he has very little of substance to say about her.
--- End quote ---
Eb said that she broke the First Law, among others, and was using the Council's Laws against it. In short, that she was a warlock. That's a pretty substantive claim, if true.
Nicodemus claimed to have known her, fondly, and her ability to create something like a baby version of a mindshadow tends to support that claim's veracity. That's substantive, too.
Thomas didn't know much, but what he'd heard and remembered added up to, in his own words about their mother, "...one Hell of a dangerous witch."
And so on. Harry had several sources and though each one gave him small pieces, the pieces added up to a picture. Luccio's account is definitely the odd one out.
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