The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
[Spolers Through GS] Maggie LeFay and the Outsiders
Mira:
--- Quote ---So, it may be that a woman who uses a great deal of magic on a fairly regular basis can retain her fertility for quite some time. The more magic she uses, the more the "essence of creation" affects her. It doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me that one of the effects could be a longer period in which she could create life herself
--- End quote ---
There is a little problem of biology, though I guess that goes out the window because we are talking fantasy verses reality, but still there is a problem older female verses older male. Men make sperm constantly, yes, the sperm count goes down and the libido slows as a man goes into his elder years, but still he should be able to father a child under the right conditions. With women it is different, a woman is born with all the eggs she is going to ever have in her ovaries when she is born. A woman's best years to reproduce are from her late teens to mid-thirties, after that is isn't so much a libido issue as her eggs begin to age. The older the egg is when it is fertilized the greater the chance for genetic breakdown in the egg and birth defects. So while women do have healthy children sometimes well into their fifties, it becomes rarer and they are taking greater risks with themselves and their baby.
Back to fantasy, I can see the period of fertility being extended for wizard women to the point where their peak child baring years might be from forty to sixty or even seventy years of age. I think what threw Luccio off was not just being in an immature [for a female wizard] female body, and having to deal with fertility issues again, but libido, she now had the sex drive of a young woman and not of a middle aged woman who had gone through menopause.
AcornArmy:
--- Quote from: Mira on September 03, 2011, 04:49:59 AM ---There is a little problem of biology, though I guess that goes out the window because we are talking fantasy verses reality, but still there is a problem older female verses older male.
....
Back to fantasy, I can see the period of fertility being extended for wizard women to the point where their peak child baring years might be from forty to sixty or even seventy years of age. I think what threw Luccio off was not just being in an immature [for a female wizard] female body, and having to deal with fertility issues again, but libido, she now had the sex drive of a young woman and not of a middle aged woman who had gone through menopause.
--- End quote ---
You just have to assume that part of the changes the "essence of creation" makes in a female wizard is that her body produces new eggs. Or that the original eggs duplicate themselves, or something. Or even that they simply go into a holding pattern, remaining viable and inside the woman until they get fertilized. We're talking about the force that supposedly created the universe from nothing here; surely it can allow a woman to maintain a constant state of health and fertility, if put to that use.
Mira:
--- Quote from: AcornArmy on September 03, 2011, 06:57:14 AM ---You just have to assume that part of the changes the "essence of creation" makes in a female wizard is that her body produces new eggs. Or that the original eggs duplicate themselves, or something. Or even that they simply go into a holding pattern, remaining viable and inside the woman until they get fertilized. We're talking about the force that supposedly created the universe from nothing here; surely it can allow a woman to maintain a constant state of health and fertility, if put to that use.
--- End quote ---
Yes, least there be too many wizardlings running about the world. Or just have suspend belief on this one.
AcornArmy:
--- Quote from: Mira on September 03, 2011, 11:52:57 AM ---Yes, least there be too many wizardlings running about the world. Or just have suspend belief on this one.
--- End quote ---
Thinking of the way Jim put it-- "Constant exposure to it through use changes the person who uses it in a number of ways, not all of them as obvious as physical recovery and longevity. The more exposure, the more dramatic the changes."-- makes me wonder about extreme cases. There have to be examples of wizards who use massive amounts of magic every day, for one reason or another. Maybe because they're working on a project that takes years to complete, or because they have powerful wards to be maintained, or some sort of responsibility which requires that they use a lot of magic every day-- something. But there have surely been cases like that in the past.
So I wonder what some of these dramatic changes are that can occur. Early onset of the Sight, the precognitive ability that Harry demonstrated on Demonreach, seems like one possibility. We already know that physical changes occur, because they're the two most well-known effects: the ability to completely recover from injuries over time, and a greatly extended lifespan. All wizards get these, to some degree, so it seems like they must be some of the first effects to occur.
And if those are the less dramatic, even least dramatic of the possible changes, it really makes me wonder what some of the others might be. Changes in size, hair color, eye color? New senses? Further alterations of the body? Producing unintentional effects upon one's surroundings?
Another question is whether or not the use of magic without language or in one's native language could accelerate these effects, at least on the wizard's mind. This could be dangerous, since apparently it's possible for a wizard to burn their mind out by doing that, but we know that it can be done without frying your brain, because Harry did it in Fool Moon. So I wonder if using magic that way for small things, and then for slightly stronger spells, would increase the alterations magic can have on someone's mind.
Also, a third question based on the last one: if Harry were to use soulfire while speaking a spell in English, or not speaking words at all, would it still be as dangerous? Or would the fact that his own soul was mixed with the magic do something to let it flow through his mind without as great a risk of injury?
Ona:
Really interesting thread - congrats folk!
--- Quote ---It also blows out of the water that Eb met his vanilla mortal wife during the French and Indian War and married her.
--- End quote ---
How so? The WoJ quoted says Maggie's mom was a mortal (not vanilla mortal) and died in 1810. Eb & Merlin were "young bucks" (about 50 years old) during the French-Indian war, and fought on opposite sides. (That's recent WoJ contemplating writing a short story about it). Especially if Maggie's mom was vanilla mortal, Eb would almost have to meet her in & around the war to have any hope of having a child with her.
Secondly, if Maggie had to be born before 1810 (which is a given, since she can't have been born *after* her mother died), and she had Harry in 1973, (& Thomas apx 7 years earlier), then we have to accept that Maggie was still fertile at no less than 160.
I'm not sure how to explain Luccio. I'll have to go back and re-read that scene. Iirc, it was more about desire/lust, than about reproduction. But... well, yeah, I need to re-read. In any case, there can be absolutely no doubt that Maggie was fertile at that age. (Biologically, my best guess is that use of magic keeps the eggs from deteriorating. When I tried for children in my 40's, I conceived easily, but couldn't carry past 12 weeks - my eggs were too old. If I was a Wizard, presumably I wouldn't have that problem. And most women, oddly enough, have too many eggs left at the onset of menopause. In the few years before it kicks in, the body begins throwing as many out as possible.)
--- Quote ---If we accept that Maggie would have no good reason to want the council to know that she was breaking the laws, then one wonders how the council found out.
--- End quote ---
Agree, completely. In fact, there are two things that bother me about the time line, though I don't have any doubts about it's basic integrity. During her dinner with Eb, she was clearly not being hunted. After that dinner, the WC thought she'd come to grief in the Nevernever, (well, maybe except for Eb). Five years pass, and when she turns on her (bad) allies, she's also hunted by the WC as a warlock. This seems like a major inconsistency to me. If they thought she was lost in the Nevernever, how could they decide she's a warlock? And if she was a busy little law breaker, under Raith's control or not, how could they think she was lost in the Nevernever?
The other is her death. I just can't see any new mother *wanting* to leave an infant child. And some of the theories in this thread are WAY convoluted. Still, it's clear that Malcolm and Harry were in some way her redemption. And Occams razor suggests that she was shielding against Raith (& others) while on the run, but couldn't hold a shield and have a baby at the same time.
Last bit of my two cents - boy did I stretch it out - is that I'm definitely in the group that thinks Maggie was a thorn in the council's side, running around risking death in the Nevernever, talking to minor demons, but not crossing the line, for most of her life.
Oh and I think it was a brilliant guess that she's the one who found the doorway to Outside in the far reaches of the Nevernever... though I'm not convinced she *did* much of anything with Outsiders. Just by finding it, she made it vulnerable.
All right, my two cents is now copper wire...
Ona
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version