Author Topic: Adapting Myth or Creating New?  (Read 12674 times)

Offline Breandan

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Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2011, 07:48:43 PM »
Those are daoine sídhe, though, not Gods. The Túatha de Dannan consists of between twelve and thirty primary and secondary deities, including Nuada Lámhairgid (king of the Túatha, alternating with Lugh periodically), Lugh Lámhfada, the Ildánach or many-skilled, Danú, the mother-figure of the Tútha de Dannan and, among other aspects, the Goddess of motherhood, Eochaid Ollathair or "an Dagda", a wise and boisterous God of masculinity who revels in feasting, fighting, acts of strength, harping, chasing women, etc., Brighíd the Goddess of poetry, fire, smithing, and inspiration of musicians and bards, Áine the Beautiful, an Mórríghan, "the Great Queen" who rules over the battlefield and governs prophecy, Goibhniu the smith, Creidhne the artificer, Macha, the Goddess of horses, war, sovereignty, and the sacral bond between a rí (king) and the land, Oghma the god of knowledge, warrior-poet natures, and eloquence, Manannán Mac Lír the Waverider, God of the seas and guardian of the gateways between this world and the otherworlds, Badb Catha the Lady of Victory and contemporary of the Brythonic Andraste, Dian Cécht the physician of the Gods, Cromm Cruach the Old Man of the Hill, and many other regional Gods and Goddesses such as Bóann who governs the rivers and waters inland, etc.
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The Túatha de Dannan were relegated to "fairies" by Christian missionaries who met with stiff resistance in their conversion efforts in Ireland. In order to ease the transition, they first put the Christian God in as the king of the Gods, and then- over time- reduced the Irish Gods to fairies to allow the Gael to continue venerating them without impinging upon Christian conversions. This created a unique blend of foreign Abrahamic beliefs- which originate in the Middle East- and indigenous Irish beliefs that culminated in what is referred to as the Celtic Church. It was this "heretical" faith that in the 12th century caused Pope Adrian IV- using the so-called Donation of Constantine (a document purporting to be written by Emperor Constantine giving complete control over the Empire and it's lands to the Pope, a document later proven to be an 8th century forgery by Pope Stephen II or someone within his papal court used in a power-grab against the Franks- to give Ireland to King Henry II in exchange for the Angevin king forcing Ireland to come in line with the Roman church. The adherence to "pagan" traditions and elements was unacceptable to the Roman authorities as they sought to consolidate and homogenize the Church, and the continued veneration of the Túatha de Dannan- even in a degenerated and watered-down form- smacked of pagan idolatry to the Pope. So, the veneration of the Túatha de Dannan underwent even further degeneration into folk customs and traditions in which 99% of the Irish forgot the origins of who they were venerating. Only a few instances- most of which involved Badb Catha or Áine- occur in later years wherein they are remembered as deities rather than fairies. The most notable was Badb Catha's appearance before the Battle of Dysert O'Dea, where she granted Clan Turlough victory. After the battle she was honoured in the Caithréim Thoirdhealbhaigh, or The Triumphs of Turlough- as "a war-goddess woman-friend".

It was only in the late 19th century with the works of Lady Augusta Greggory and W.B. Yeats that the Túatha de Dannan were once again written in literature (Greggory's Gods and Fighting Men most notably) as Gods and not fairies. That was the beginning of a resurgence of indigenous Gaelic faith that still continues to this day. Many folks out there pray to the Túatha de Dannan and follow the faith and customs of their Ancestors, just as many worship and honour the Æsir and Vanir, the Olympians, the Häme-Karjalaso Gods, the Gods of the many American peoples, etc. As a result, it is important that- as authors- we get it right if we wish to avoid the upset or outright angry emails and rantings :)
"You know, the sad part is, that whole Combat Teddy Bear Robe incident was done while sober... *facepalm* "

Offline newtinmpls

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Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2011, 07:57:53 PM »
"You know, the sad part is, that whole Combat Teddy Bear Robe incident was done while sober... *facepalm* "

To momentarily cross genres and universes - people see a man dressed like that and they know he's not afraid of anything.

Figging Mint

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Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2011, 08:04:12 PM »
To momentarily cross genres and universes - people see a man dressed like that and they know he's not afraid of anything.

Did anyone else have a The Number of the Beast moment while reading this?

Offline Breandan

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Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2011, 08:25:51 PM »
In my defense, it was done for a friend who wanted a humorous take on a zombie hunter. Granted, that's the ONLY defense I have, cause I love that robe and wear it often :D
"You know, the sad part is, that whole Combat Teddy Bear Robe incident was done while sober... *facepalm* "

Offline trboturtle

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Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2011, 11:33:09 PM »
So Craig, what was your take on her relationship with Garion?

A very protective mother. Been a few years since I read Eddings, but As I remembered it, Polgara was a stable point around which Garion grew up. She didn't smother him, but let him grow up as a normal boy.

She probably chose the best place for a boy who would be king to grow up in -- Sendars are pratical, hard-working types.....

Craig
Author of 25+ stories for Battlecorps.com, the official website for Battletech canon stories.
Co-author of "Outcasts Ops: African Firestorm," "Outcast Ops: Red Ice," & "Outcast Ops: Watchlist"
http://thebattletechstate.blogspot.com

Offline Nickeris86

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Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2011, 04:17:53 PM »
What I like to do, primarily for urban fantasy stories, is role up particular mythical creatures  into one race that humans have called many things depending one where they were seen.

In a short story series I am formulating  where 13 simultaneous cataclysms have brought myth and magic back into the world there are a race of creatures who were the foundation for the myths of the Manticore, Cerberus, Worgs, Fu dogs, and just about any other animal based mythical creature. Because their race is prone to various mutations and the panic that they induced by their mere presence their legends got blown way out of proportion with their actual abilities.

This method allows me to pull from myth while still creating an entirely new and interesting creature that is all my own.
In the darkest hour i shall be there.

Figging Mint

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Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2011, 09:58:52 PM »
In a short story series I am formulating  where 13 simultaneous cataclysms have brought

 :o :o :o :o

Offline Nickeris86

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Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2011, 12:23:29 AM »
:o :o :o :o

<.<   >.> What. 13 major disasters around the world that happen at the same time.
In the darkest hour i shall be there.

Figging Mint

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Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2011, 12:27:39 AM »
13 major disasters around the world that happen at the same time.

Oh, I understood that.   Saying it the other way seems ... apocalypticalier.   

And begging of belief that they are connected, which would tend to fuse the separate events into a single cusp of significance.

Offline Nickeris86

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Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2011, 05:32:56 AM »
Oh, I understood that.   Saying it the other way seems ... apocalypticalier.   

And begging of belief that they are connected, which would tend to fuse the separate events into a single cusp of significance.

Lol yeah I know but you seemed confused by my statement of 13 cataclysms.
In the darkest hour i shall be there.

Figging Mint

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Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2011, 05:41:12 AM »
Lol yeah I know but you seemed confused by my statement of 13 cataclysms.

That wasn't "confusion" so much as "open-mouthed staring at something so totally, unabashedly, over the top that it just might work, Cap'n"

Offline Breandan

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Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2011, 05:52:49 AM »
I have a toddler who is stronger than a four year old and smarter than some high schoolers. 13 simultaneous cataclysms has NOTHING on her :D
hmmmm... "Toddlergeddon" has a ring to it.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand- another option you might want to look at (the original poster I mean) is to take extant mythological beings, and evolve them in step with how humanity has evolved. Jim has done this to a great extent within the Dresden Files, and I think that is what makes urban fantasy so appealing- making ancient boogeymen and creatures of legend somehow closer to us. Counterpoint to that, if you have a situation where the critters haven't had any exposure to the mortal world in millennia, imagine how badly they would wig out when the hairless monkeys they last saw wielding spears are now coming after them with assault weapons and MBTs :)
"You know, the sad part is, that whole Combat Teddy Bear Robe incident was done while sober... *facepalm* "

Offline Nickeris86

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Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2011, 04:51:16 PM »
I have a toddler who is stronger than a four year old and smarter than some high schoolers. 13 simultaneous cataclysms has NOTHING on her :D
hmmmm... "Toddlergeddon" has a ring to it.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand- another option you might want to look at (the original poster I mean) is to take extant mythological beings, and evolve them in step with how humanity has evolved. Jim has done this to a great extent within the Dresden Files, and I think that is what makes urban fantasy so appealing- making ancient boogeymen and creatures of legend somehow closer to us. Counterpoint to that, if you have a situation where the critters haven't had any exposure to the mortal world in millennia, imagine how badly they would wig out when the hairless monkeys they last saw wielding spears are now coming after them with assault weapons and MBTs :)

Lol that makes me think of a character a friend of mine created. He was a Raw Head Bloody Bones (old world Freddy Kruger type) but was also a heart surgeon.
In the darkest hour i shall be there.

Figging Mint

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Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2011, 04:54:52 PM »
Lol that makes me think of a character a friend of mine created. He was a Raw Head Bloody Bones (old world Freddy Kruger type) but was also a heart surgeon.

THAT made me think of that series 'The Kingdom'

Offline Bearracuda

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Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2011, 08:28:40 PM »
I have yet to meet a male reader who could stand Polgara.

Honestly, I struggled to get through the entire story.  I found just about the entire cast to be obnoxious, with Polgara simply leading the charge.  They expect Garion to save the world, but then they grab him by the ear like a naughty boy (even though he's by far the most behaved young character in the whole damned series) and haul him across the land doing everything for him and telling him to shut up.  The vast majority of them just abused him for the hell of it and if he tried to respond in ANY way that wasn't silence, (I seem to remember a couple moments where he even got punished for subservience) they'd berate him for his immaturity.  It reminded me of my family. -_- 

There was nothing Garion could do to prove himself to them, and they found it beneath themselves to even talk to him about what they had planned for his future.  I honestly cannot comprehend why he didn't just walk off into the forest one night while they were all asleep and go build a life of his own.  I know that's what I did when I was put in his situation, and now only 2 years later, I have stock options.  I own a car.  I have a job.  A rather well paid job considering I only have a high school diploma. ($15/hr)  I have my own place to live.  I'm doing pretty damned well for myself, and Garion had twice the sheer willpower and motivation I do.  It boggles the mind to think what sort of life he could have made for himself, especially when you consider the fact that by following them blindly like a deaf, dumb, and mute slave, he still ended up becoming a king.

And on that note, I hated how Polgara and Belgarath constantly got off to telling Garion how immature he was.  All he wanted was basically human rights, and everytime he tried saying something about it, they'd administer a swift and sudden guilt trip to him before he could even finish the sentence.  Whereas they not only had human rights, but the fate of the universe in their hands and enough power to make anyone shit themselves if they blinked twice.  Yet, what do they do with it?  They go save the world, yeah, but they do it in their own completely disrespectful, uppity, high-horsed, narcassistic, abusive ways.  All the while using Garion as their punching bag everytime they feel a little frustrated about how it's not working out.  Dear god, these are SUPPOSED to be the mentor characters.  They're supposed to teach Garion the ways of the world.  All they give him is a direct and stunningly clear view into the wide world of Stockholme Syndrome.  I mean, every once in a while Belgarath would redeem himself marginally by showing some mild kindness to Garion, but then you turn the next page and he's back to diddling his own peenie and ignoring everyone who wants to know what his plans are.  If a character's going to be secretive and mysterious, he has to save the day in the end.  Not just save it, but do it in a way that makes everyone's jaws hit the floor so hard they leave skidmarks.  Like Dresden, or Sherlock Holmes.  And let me tell you, Belgarath was no Sherlock.

I mean, I guess it's a note in the authors favor that I could truly HATE these characters so much.  It means they're realistic.  You can't hate a cardboard cutout.  But if I wanted to double my blood pressure and practice my anger management methods, I'd just show up for Thanksgiving Dinner.  I deal with that enough in my real life to read a book full of it. 

... And yet, I finished the whole series.  >.>  I'm not sure if that says more about me or the author...  Definitely not gettin' started on that sequel series, though.  I'll tell you that much.