Whom do I give a Fate Point when I do an AOE?

[Discipol]

It makes sense now, and answers my question, also going to inform the gang about this, it will eliminate *exchanging a fate point* phenomenon.

[devonapple]

First tag to invoke a newly discovered/created Aspect for +2 to a roll:
free
(+2 to attack something, +2 to dodge an attack)

First tag to invoke a newly discovered/created Aspect for a reroll:
free

First tag to invoke a newly discovered/created Aspect to create a beneficial personal plot effect:
free

First tag to invoke a newly discovered/created Aspect to create a detrimental plot effect on a target that is basically a Compel:
free (for the tagger);
then the GM converts it to a Compel, bankrolls it with a Fate Point, and runs the Compel against the target on his own
(the player gets no FP if the target opts to spend a FP to buy off the Invoke-cum-Compel)

First invoke (on a newly discovered/created Aspect) to create a serious plot advantage:
may cost the player a few Fate Points


In the case of AoE's, most of the Fate Points you spend are going to be for numerical bonuses, and will be going to the GM, not to any of the individual targets. In situations when you are trying to mass-Compel a group of creatures with the same Aspect, the GM should charge a few Fate Points, but not one per target (this is based on conversations with Fred and Lenny, lead DFRPG game developers)

[EldritchFire]

First tag for +2 to a roll (on a newly discovered/created Aspect):
free
(+2 to attack something, +2 to dodge an attack)

First tag for reroll (on a newly discovered/created Aspect):
free

I agree so far.

First invoke (on a newly discovered/created Aspect) to create a beneficial personal plot effect:
free

Invokes cost a Fate Point. Tags are free. I'm assuming you mean tag here.

First invoke (on a newly discovered/created Aspect) to create a detrimental plot effect on a target that is basically a Compel:
free (for the tagger);
then the GM converts it to a Compel, bankrolls it with a Fate Point, and runs the Compel against the target on his own
(the player gets no FP if the target opts to spend a FP to buy off the Invoke-cum-Compel)

I'm confused. Is it a tag (free), an invoke, or a compel? From my reading of the aspects chapter, compel FPs disappear, while invoke FPs go to the character it is used against.

First invoke (on a newly discovered/created Aspect) to create a serious plot advantage:
may cost the player a few Fate Points


In the case of AoE's, most of the Fate Points you spend are going to be for numerical bonuses, and will be going to the GM, not to any of the individual targets. In situations when you are trying to mass-Compel a group of creatures with the same Aspect, the GM should charge a few Fate Points, but not one per target (this is based on conversations with Fred and Lenny, lead DFRPG game developers)

Again, per my understanding, if someones aspect is invoked, that character (PC or NPC) gets the FP. If it's a compel, the FP disappears, and tags don't cost anything, so no FP changes hands.

-EF

[UmbraLux]

A "tag" is simply an "invoke" that neither costs fate nor directly gives fate when the use is detrimental.  An "invoke for effect" is simply a "compel" initiated by player instead of GM.  Some prefer to model that as initiating a compel from the GM.  (Have I mentioned how much I detest some of the jargon in my last hundred posts?   )

Ignoring the jargon and the line on multiple fate points for a plot advantage, devonapple appears to have everything correct.  I'm not sure where the multiple fate point cost came from unless he's obliquely referring to the escalation rules around compels.

[devonapple]

Ignoring the jargon and the line on multiple fate points for a plot advantage, devonapple appears to have everything correct.  I'm not sure where the multiple fate point cost came from unless he's obliquely referring to the escalation rules around compels.

I was asking the developers about Compelling the same Aspect on multiple targets, and Lenny mentioned that it didn't have to be 1 fate point per target, but that nothing's free, so a few Fate Points should change hands for such an advantage.

Edit: Have I cleaned up the jargon sufficiently (see above)?

[noclue]

So, if you are invoking an aspect to cause some detrimental effect to three characters, you'd pay each of them a FP per Lenny? I'm cool with that. But what if it's a Tag? Do you pay nothing, or is one of the characters free? If so, which one?

[EldritchFire]

So, if you are invoking an aspect to cause some detrimental effect to three characters, you'd pay each of them a FP per Lenny? I'm cool with that. But what if it's a Tag? Do you pay nothing, or is one of the characters free? If so, which one?

You pay the Fate Point to the character who's aspect you're invoking...unless it's your own, than the FP just goes away.

-EF

[UmbraLux]

@noclue:  It's a bit more complex, mostly because who / what the aspect is "attached" to also matters.  

If someone uses a personal aspect to increase a zone wide attack (or anything else) the victims don't receive a fate point.  If it was an invoke and not a tag, the fate point simply goes into the pot.  When you invoke someone's aspect to use against them, they get the fate point.  Though you do get one free tag on new assessments, consequences*, and declarations.  So the first use of someone's aspect may not get them a fate point.  

One more thing, you don't get a fate point if the aspect, even your own, is used to your benefit.  

*You do get a fate point from taking the consequence at the end of the scene.  Assuming you made it through.  I would count a death scene as a separate scene...so a wizard would have those points to use in his death curse.  Perhaps that's one reason death curses are so feared...

@devonapple:  The jargon isn't your fault!  I simply think labeling it "free invoke" and "free compel" would keep things simpler.  And avoid some confusion.  Calling those "tags" and "invokes for effect" just muddied the waters.  For the record, I still think Dresden Files RPG is the best translation of fiction to RPG I've seen.  Bar none.  I simply dislike jargon.  

[EldritchFire]

...
@devonapple:  The jargon isn't your fault!  I simply think labeling it "free invoke" and "free compel" would keep things simpler.  And avoid some confusion.  Calling those "tags" and "invokes for effect" just muddied the waters.  For the record, I still think Dresden Files RPG is the best translation of fiction to RPG I've seen.  Bar none.  I simply dislike jargon.  

+1.

The jargon is a bit confusing, but a necessary evil. It's there so we're all on the same page when discussing the rules. I hope I didn't come off as an ass when correcting your jargon, the internet is difficult to covey feeling and intent.

-EF

[computerking]

I was asking the developers about Compelling the same Aspect on multiple targets, and Lenny mentioned that it didn't have to be 1 fate point per target, but that nothing's free, so a few Fate Points should change hands for such an advantage.

Really? But according to YS107:

Scene  aspects may  imply  some  circumstances that will befall any (or many) of the characters in  the  scene—Everything  Is  Burning!  is a classic example and a  frequent aspect  in any scene  involving Harry Dresden. In such a case, it’s entirely apropos to act as if that aspect is on each character’s sheet and compel (see page 100) the aspect for each of them, dishing fate points all  around  and  nicely  covering  the  effects  the aspect has on the characters in the scene. Technically speaking, a player could try to use a scene aspect to initiate a mass compel, but it’d
be a pretty expensive proposition—he’d have to spend a fate point for every character he wants to be affected by the compel.

Does this count only for compels, then? Or only for Scene Aspect Compels, and not for AOEs?

[devonapple]

Really? But according to YS107:
Does this count only for compels, then? Or only for Scene Aspect Compels, and not for AOEs?

I was referring specifically to Evocation-Based Aspects which get placed on multiple foes, not Scene or Location Aspects. Like someone doing a Disarm spell (Invoke to keep all foes with the "Disarmed" Aspect from attacking while they retrieve their weapons) or using a Maneuver to place the Aspect "Frozen in Place" rather than using a Block against Movement.

So, if you managed to successfully place an Aspect like "Disarmed" on a bunch of foes using a Spray Evocation Maneuver, you could get some effect for free simply by free-tagging to invoke that Aspect or get a bonus against something they do, but if you wanted something more plot-intensive (they all let us get away), that means Fate Points. NOT a Fate Point per Aspect, but certainly more than one.

[UmbraLux]

I was referring specifically to Evocation-Based Aspects which get placed on multiple foes, not Scene or Location Aspects. Like someone doing a Disarm spell (Invoke to keep all foes with the "Disarmed" Aspect from attacking while they retrieve their weapons) or using a Maneuver to place the Aspect "Frozen in Place" rather than using a Block against Movement.

That would be an interesting description! 

So, if you managed to successfully place an Aspect like "Disarmed" on a bunch of foes using a Spray Evocation Maneuver, you could get some effect for free simply by free-tagging to invoke that Aspect or get a bonus against something they do, but if you wanted something more plot-intensive (they all let us get away), that means Fate Points. NOT a Fate Point per Aspect, but certainly more than one.

Wouldn't this just use the free tag for the compel (or invoke for effect if you prefer)?  And getting away seems to be a concession.  I'm probably missing something.   

[devonapple]

That would be an interesting description! 
Wouldn't this just use the free tag for the compel (or invoke for effect if you prefer)?  And getting away seems to be a concession.  I'm probably missing something.   

Well, Lenny was fine with the free tag/invoke being used for a +2, a reroll, or even a minor (one-round) advantage (usually enemy doesn't attack/act), but to end the conflict completely using those free tags would be like trying to get a "free lunch," so some actual Fate Points should change hands, but not, he emphasized, one per Aspect... just enough to make it count. As far as what counts as a concession/victory, that's all relative. Invokes/tags can't themselves *trigger* an automatic Concession, but a sufficient Compel should possibly *motivate* a Concession, it that makes any sense.