Author Topic: Demonreach, the Holy People, and Outsiders  (Read 14095 times)

Offline BlahBlah

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Re: Demonreach, the Holy People, and Outsiders
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2011, 03:52:28 AM »
Wasn't the Stone Table located above Lake Michigan?  I've wondered for a while if it had any relation to the runes at the DR.



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Offline peregrine

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Re: Demonreach, the Holy People, and Outsiders
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2011, 04:29:21 AM »
We do have one other example of someone who entered the world without the "parents" having relations, given the Swords that are in play.

And I'm'a shut up now before I hit a very TT with a question about whether that guy had a soul.
Jesus's parents may not have had relations, but Bob said that angels are nothing but soul, it's reasonable to assume that the White God (not real God, but made up DV Christian God) is the same if not more so.  So he could probably have managed that.

However, if angels don't make baby angels, then it argues against procreation being necessary for a soul.

Also, I've always considered the Stone Table being less of an actual location, and more like an idea.  It is where and when the Queens want it, and they can put it wherever they want.

Offline Silkki

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Re: Demonreach, the Holy People, and Outsiders
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2011, 08:19:47 AM »
Just one thing. Is the lighthouse a lighthouse. Or is it an ancient tower that Harry just presumes was a lighthouse instead of livingquaters of most powerfull powerfullnes of his time ^^. Who knows, maybe Raistlin lived there! ^^

White God (not real God, but made up DV Christian God)

I probably will be considered a troll for saying this, but I think DV God is infintely more cool than "real" God.

^^
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 08:29:58 AM by Silkki »

Offline Silkki

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Re: Demonreach, the Holy People, and Outsiders
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2011, 08:29:32 AM »
-doublepost- fffuuu

Offline itari

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Re: Demonreach, the Holy People, and Outsiders
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2011, 08:40:34 AM »
I probably will be considered a troll for saying this, but I think DV God is infintely more cool than "real" God.
:D

Given something someone (either Bob or Harry, maybe Thomas) said about love, sex, making a whole new soul from the merging of two souls, and how powerful it is, I would think that souls might be needed for reproduction.
Uh, so how do animals other than humans reproduce? They don't have human souls. And what about changelings?

Offline DominicJ

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Re: Demonreach, the Holy People, and Outsiders
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2011, 09:31:21 AM »
but I never really saw that as the 'physical' angel.

I'd assumed angels didnt have physical bodies, unless they created them with soul fire.

Bob sayas words to the effect of "Thats all they are Harry, souls", about angels.
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Offline sociotard

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Re: Demonreach, the Holy People, and Outsiders
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2011, 03:08:56 PM »
I suppose that a time-traveler could have gone to prehistoric times and made the writing.

One way or another, I'd guess that the writing was made a long time before the lighthouse and cottage, just because the function and style of those kind of structures seems too modern.  My impression was that those buildings were left over from the botched attempt at settling the island, and the builders used the rune covered rock to build with. (using artifacts to build with was depressingly common at the time.)
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Offline contraducktory

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Re: Demonreach, the Holy People, and Outsiders
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2011, 03:25:44 PM »
Just one thing. Is the lighthouse a lighthouse. Or is it an ancient tower that Harry just presumes was a lighthouse instead of livingquaters of most powerfull powerfullnes of his time

From how the island is described, and the fact that the fire they followed to get to the correct location to get through the stone reef was near the 'tower', I would go with it was a lighthouse.  What the stones came from before that, is another story.
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Offline Orbweaver

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Re: Demonreach, the Holy People, and Outsiders
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2011, 04:18:34 PM »
:D
Uh, so how do animals other than humans reproduce? They don't have human souls. And what about changelings?

Gross out Factor: Tapeworms carry both male and female genitalia. They don't need a partner.

All that we presently have on the Skinwalker is this, as told from Bob's (slightly anecdotal) point of view in Turn Coat, page 212-213, hardback edition: "You're using the English word, which doesn't really describe them very precisely. Most skinwalkers are just people- powerful, dangerous, and often psychotic people, but people. They're successors to the traditions and skills taught to avaricious mortals by the originals. The naagloshii." "Originals like Shagnasty", I said. "He's the real deal, all right," Bob replied, his quiet voice growing serious. "According to some stories of the Navajo, the naagloshii were originally messengers for the Holy People, when they were first teaching humans the Blessing Way." "Messengers?" I said. "Like angels?"

"Or like those guys on bikes in New York, maybe?" Bob said. "Not all couriers are created identical, Mr. Lowest-Common denominator. Anyway, the original messengers, the naagloshii, were supposed to go with the Holy People when they departed the mortal world. But some of them didn't. They stayed here, and their selfishness corrupted the power the Holy People gave them. Voila, Shagnasty."

And as for the procreation issue, here's what Bob had to say about it on page 212: "It's a semidivine immortal, Harry. It doesn't procreate. It has no need to recombine DNA. That means that gender doesn't apply. That's something only you meat sacks worry about."

Based on that statement, it seems as though there are quite a few things running around that don't have procreation requirements, but may also have souls regardless of that factor. Shaggy was created as a messenger, initially- which places him way outside of any category we've come across in the past, because he's not based on the typical definition of life.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 05:01:30 PM by Orbweaver »
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Offline DominicJ

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Re: Demonreach, the Holy People, and Outsiders
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2011, 09:16:09 PM »
Edited now on computer
******
During the fight with the naagloshi, possibly after it ends, the Naagloshi expalins to Harry that he has tortured Thomas beyond sanity, and was considering throwing thomas into the house with molly before Harry Force Ringed him in.
Only he doesnt say house, he says "Hogan", which is a type of navajo dwelling, one that had strong religious connotations.

Is he just using a generic word for house, or is the lighthouse/cottage a spiritual "Hogan"?

« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 07:41:54 AM by DominicJ »
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Offline DominicJ

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Re: Demonreach, the Holy People, and Outsiders
« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2011, 07:59:43 AM »
Oh this just keeps getting better
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo_language

The Navajo language is, somehow, related to the language of much of Alaska and Western Canada, reaching the shores of the hudson bay.
If we assume a moderate amount of traffic along the hudson bay, well that puts us within striking distance of the great lakes, and so the island.

The Naagloshi were sent as messangers to the Navajo, but that doesnt mean they didnt send messangers to other people either, if we use language as a guide, they did....
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Offline Serack

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Re: Demonreach, the Holy People, and Outsiders
« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2011, 10:59:42 AM »
edit:  I got my threads mixed.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 01:12:14 PM by Serack »
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