Grandchild of Love and War

[Tsunami]

By my math, the Items Of Power are more or less correctly costed. They just use a rather broad interpretation of It Is What It Is, a -0 cost for Ectoplasmic Ammunition, and also a second Feeding Dependency. It's all very sketchy, I admit. Especially the second Feeding Dependency.

I have to disagree on the correctly costed part.

I've added theoretical power costs, otherwise it's just as Belial wrote it up

[-1] Items of Power (includes one-time discount)
       Ravager
       *It is what it is: a missile launcher (as per grenade launcher but weapon 6 and longer-ranged)
       *Indestructible
       [-1]*Hephaestus-Forged Weaponry: +2 weapon rating
       [-1]*True Aim
       *Ectoplasmic Ammunition: generates unlimited ammo using the essence of war as fuel; spilled blood. If this is used instead of real ammo, circles block the attack.
       Bloodseeker
       *It is what it is: a short-handled for its size battleaxe, with a massive axehead, one iron edge, one silver edge (weapon 5)
       *Indestructible
       [-1]*Blood-Drinker
       [-1]*Concordant Opposition - may take a mental stress hit to boost an attack roll or a defense roll by the amount of stress she took,
         to a maximum of 4. May take a 2-stress mental hit to degrade physical immunity down to mythic toughness.
       [+1]*Feeding Dependency: Blood
       [-0]*Tears of the Slain: as Cassandra's Tears, only it predicts wars and violent battles instead of other disasters.
       Mantle of Mists
       *It is what it is: a sheer nightgown. Somewhat indecent to wear in polite company. (or not - your mileage may vary)
       [-0]*Human Guise


two problems with the IOPs

a) as it's written up now, Feeding dependency only affects The Cassandras Tears knockoff, and hence would not reward any points. Even if it would affect the Concordant Opposition Power, it would still give no refresh bonus, since it has to affect at least -2 refresh worth of power, and these are just not there. And it would make absolutely no sense at all for it to affect Blood drinker, or powers not on the Bloodseeker. Therefore: No bonus from feeding dependency.

b) I think Ectoplasmic ammunition should cost -1. All the IoP's that allow for recall, so they can be used as a thrown weapon over and over again charge refresh for that. I think this falls in the same category.

This would make the IoP's total cost a -3.

[Becq]

As an aside, even if you price Ectoplasmic Ammunition at -0, the total cost would be -3.  Why?  Because you can only take the IoP one-time discount once.  Applied to Ravager, the maximum one-time discount would be +1.  Pricing Ectoplasmic Ammunition at -1 would allow you to claim a +2 discount on Ravager, which results in the item costing the same refresh either way.

As to the "It Is What It Is", consider the following schenanigans:

[-1] Power Armor Suit
       It's a highly advanced military-grade power suit brought back from the distant future.  Made from alloys available only to future science, it grants an armor rating of 20 against weapons of similar or more advanced technological design; to represent its near-impervious nature against more archaic weaponry it grants the equivalent of Physical Immunity with the Catch of Advanced Futuristic Weaponry.  As powered armor, it also greatly enhances the strength and speed of the wearer, granting the equivalent of Mythic Strength and Mythic Speed.  Several weapon systems are incorporated into the armor suit, included a focused plasma blaster (weapon: 20 with armor piercing 10) and a plasma missile launcher (weapon: 20, affecting the target zone and all adjacent zones); these weapons benefit from a computerized targeting system that grants a +5 to Guns rolls when using PAS weaponry.  It incorporates jump-jets which allow the wearer to fly.
       Unbreakable
       [+2] Discount Already Applied
       [-3] Advanced Neural Link (as True Aim but with a +3 bonus, applies to integrated PAS weaponry)

Sound reasonable?

[Sanctaphrax]

I assumed that the Feeding Dependency applied to all powers on the Items Of Power. I have no real basis for this assumption.

I also treated the items as a set for the discount. Which may or may not be fair, I dunno.

PS: Becq, be serious.

It Is What It Is for a weapon 6 rocket launcher is actually pretty reasonable, as long as you'd allow a mortal character to have a weapon 6 rocket launcher. Which I would, in some games. Weapon 5 giant axe is more questionable, though. I'd probably stick with 3 or 4 as the limit for a muscle-powered melee weapon.

[kihon]

The power suit is a joke - right?  Mythic speed & strength.... lmao

[UmbraLux]

The power suit is a joke - right?  Mythic speed & strength.... lmao

I suspect Becq is making the point you can't give an item arbitrary powers and then simply charge -1 refresh because "the item is a MacGuffin" (It is What It Is).

[Becq]

You actually thought that the mythics were more of an issue that the physical immunity to everything but weaponry from the far future, and the AoE weapon:20 attack? 

And it's depressing that anyone was even the least bit unsure as to whether or not the power armor idea was serious...

[devonapple]

And it's depressing that anyone was even the least bit unsure as to whether or not the power armor idea was serious...

::looks up from his keyboard::

Oh, it wasn't? I was about to give it to the White Court Mayor of my San Francisco game.

::deletedeletedeletedeletedelete::

[Belial666]

@Old or New, War Changes Not:
It's pretty much the same stunt as in the Gruff writeup, except I put down "weapons" instead of "guns" as the base skill. Either skill would work - but "weapons" would fit more a descentand of Ares.

@mythic abilities:
She is at the same power level as Magog or Ursiel. One mythic ability is expected.

@Items of Power:
I messed the pricing and I'd originally intended the Ravager to be a single weapon. Dividing in two did not work and I missed the problems it caused. Here's a fix;

[-1]  Ravager
       *It is what it is: a grenade-launcher (w4, ranged, area) with a massive warglaive added bayonet-style (w4, melee)
       *Indestructible
       *One-time Discount (+2)
       *Feeding Dependency: Blood - modifying the following powers; (+1)
       *Hephaestus-Forged Weaponry: +2 weapon rating (-1)
       *True Aim (-1)
       *Ectoplasmic Ammunition: generates unlimited ammo using the essence of war as fuel; spilled blood. If this is used instead of real ammo, circles block the attack. (-1)
       *Blood-Drinker (-1)

[-1]  Mantle of Mists
       *It is what it is: a sheer nightgown. Somewhat indecent to wear in polite company. (or not - your mileage may vary)
       *Human Guise
       *Concordant Opposition - may take a mental stress hit to boost an attack roll or a defense roll by the amount of stress she took,
         to a maximum of 4. May take a 2-stress mental hit to degrade physical immunity down to mythic toughness.
       *Tears of the Slain: as Cassandra's Tears, only it predicts wars and violent battles instead of other disasters.

[UmbraLux]

@Old or New, War Changes Not:
It's pretty much the same stunt as in the Gruff writeup...

It is...but that stunt doesn't follow the stunt building guidelines.  I'd recommend something more like Armed Arts.

It is what it is: a grenade-launcher (w4, ranged, area) with a massive warglaive added bayonet-style (w4, melee)

Disregarding the weapon values, this is a bit more...anime-ish than I see in a standard DF game.  But whatever works for your group. 

       *Hephaestus-Forged Weaponry: +2 weapon rating (-1)

This is underpriced for the power.  See YS147 for stunt building guidelines.  Powers are only slightly more efficient than stunts.

       *Concordant Opposition - may take a mental stress hit to boost an attack roll or a defense roll by the amount of stress she took,
         to a maximum of 4. May take a 2-stress mental hit to degrade physical immunity down to mythic toughness.

You're pricing this at -0?  Knocking physical immunity down is fairly significant.  Also, I don't really see how it fits the item.  How does a nightgown let you hit things better and make ghosts (one example) physical?

[ways and means]

*Hephaestus-Forged Weaponry: +2 weapon rating (-1)

This is underpriced for the power.  See YS147 for stunt building guidelines.  Powers are only slightly more efficient than stunts.

To quote the stunts guideline you can increase weapons rating by two under a particular condition and the particular condition for this stunt is that it only applies to one weapon the "Ravager."

What I don't understand is why Belial is charging 0 refresh for a rehashed Sacred Guardian Power (-1 refresh power) which is also a lot better than Sacred Guardian (Sacred Guardian allowed a -2 mental stress hit just to affect spirits).    

[Becq]

To quote the stunts guideline you can increase weapons rating by two under a particular condition and the particular condition for this stunt is that it only applies to one weapon the "Ravager."

So it's a bonus that applies 100% of the time when you'd be using the bonus?  That's pretty darned limited.  Perhaps it should continue to grant the bonus to weapons in the same zone?  Considering that it wouldn't be granting bonuses to 99.99999% of the weapons existing it the world, that's still limited enough, right?

Sorry, I don't feel as though limiting a stunt to the only attack you plan to ever use it with (because it's linked to a weapon that grants a refresh discount of its own) counts as a 'limited use'.  If you get the bonus once per scene, or in conjunction with a Fate expenditure, sure, but this bous applies to every situation that it *could* be of use.

[UmbraLux]

To quote the stunts guideline you can increase weapons rating by two under a particular condition and the particular condition for this stunt is that it only applies to one weapon the "Ravager."

Yes...however increasing it by two for a characters primary weapon seldom qualifies as a "particular condition" in play.  It probably qualifies as the specific circumstance which might grant a +1...or might not.  The examples are narrower but the language isn't exactly clear.

[ways and means]

You defiantly can get a +1 to accuracy with a certain type of weapon as a stunt, the example from the book being

Way of the AK (Guns): Sanya gains a +1 to
attacks made with guns of Russian or
former Soviet manufacture.

Considering the AK47 is perhaps the worlds most common gun so in comparison a +1 to a specific weapon would be much more limited than this. Belial could defiantly justify a Way of the Rocket stunt which is probably better than a +2 to weapons because you get +1 damage and significant increase in your hit rate. 

[Belial666]

@UmbaLux;
I didn't add the prices to the Mantle of Mists as the only thing that has a price IS the Concordant Opposition power. The MoM takes no cost reductions whatsoever as it is the second IoP. As for how it fits, is is the Power of Love helping you in your fights via morale or divine blessing. Aphrodite did manipulate warriors through love  - hell she even started entire wars. (that's the reason she's Ares' main squeeze btw)

@Becq;
Take a look at any powers (not stunts) that just add +2 stress to a single ability or attack. All of them cost -1. For a -2, Inhuman Strength adds +2 stress to all muscle-powered attacks, not just one, and has significant other bonuses to boot. And Hephaestus-forged weaponry is a power by default, given that it is an IoP ability.

@ways and means:
Sacred Guardian allows you to completely negate the toughness/recovery/immunity of spiritual entities for a 2-point mental hit. Most people don't realize just how many spiritual entities are there. We got Outsiders, Demons, Angels and Fallen Angels, Ghosts and their ilk, Fae spirits like Bob, Elementals and Genius Loci like the Demonreach and that's just for the primarily "Western" myths. A good 1/3 of all supernaturals are spirits.
If anything, "Concordant Opposition" is a bit downscaled because it only affects Immunity (not all toughness), which is a lot rarer than spirits.