The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Origins of the Three Eye drug. (Changes spoiler)
Phariah:
well Harry says it in one book that Bob keeps track of the ever changing metaphysics of magic for him. no specific timeline though.
Zolt:
I usually hesitate to jump into any thread the Neurovore has been in. Bob-like memory combined with a predator's instinct for pointing out contradictions are though to go up against. Also, the use of pronouns becomes a death trap.
--- Quote from: Rasins on July 07, 2011, 05:48:47 PM ---That being the case, it's not a sure thing, but reasonable to guess that Victor had been taught it by someone from the RC to test it out (it hadn't been used for 1000 years according to Odin and magic changes about every 300 years according to Bob). I'd bet they taught him the curse, and the means to make the 3eye. And if what you said is true, then in about oh, 20 years, the WC would have it's hands full of potential wizards/warlocks. And if you remember Ortega said that the War was started about 20 years early.
--- End quote ---
Actually Vadderung's comment meant that this level of power hasn't been used for 1000 years, I don't think he meant that particular spell or ritual.
The WOJ about magic changing every 300 years or so didn't necessarily mean big, fundamental changes - Jim was originally talking about the side effects of magic, such as its effect on technology when he made that comment. Even so, a skilled wizard could probably make his calculations and compensate for any deviations in the magic field - I seem to recall Harry and Bob doing something vaguely like that at some point.
--- Quote from: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 08, 2011, 02:33:11 AM ---I can believe that pushing Harry to go dark is part of the point, even if not recruiting him directly. The flip he nearly has outside Sells' house, before the mysterious female voice brings him back to himself, seems to me like it very well might be the whole point of the operation.
--- End quote ---
I try to avoid any theory that assumes that Harry is the center of creation (even though he actually is). Both Nick and Cowl have tried to turn him, and shown an interest in keeping him alive when they had the opportunity to kill him, but they have also made it clear that his death is perfectly acceptable to them, and that he is kind of secondary in their respective plans.
--- Quote ---They did however get data on how well the curse worked, which may well have been useful for designing the implementation in Changes.
--- End quote ---
Point there: Making people's heart explode for no apparent reason usually draws wardens pretty quickly. Using a fuse to experiment was a good decision.
My question however is: Who exactly did the experiment benefit? It wasn't the vampires, or at least Bianca was not involved. That curse seems to be something that the vampires have used in the past - Martin knew about this ritual even before he started his whole double-agent thing. This isn't even a theory at this point, but *someone* wanted to experiment with , and get more data on that spell, then 12 years later *someone* manipulated the vamps to use the same curse, and make it massively overkill.
The after said spell goes off - on a different target than intended - Night of Bad dreams, which looks very much like an omen of Bad Things to come. My pet theory is that it's the ritual itself, not the death of the Red Court, that triggered the Bad Dreams, and whatever is coming next. And *someone* wanted that to happen.
[About Bianca's death]
--- Quote ---I would say it's absolutely critical. She is another sacrifice; her death is a casus belli.
--- End quote ---
As a principle, I hate omniscient villains (and I suspect that the Neurovore might be one, but that's another story). Look at the sequence of event that led to Bianca's death
- Lea manages to steal Amorrachius - purely opportunity based, due to Harry getting hit in the head and making some very bad decisions. This happens at the last minute before the party.
- Susan decides to show up at Bianca's party.
- Harry blows a fuse, throws the accords and everything else out the window and goes up against Bianca.
- He actually succeeds in killing her, even though he was captive , deprived of most of his power, and locked in a room with a bloodthirsty half-vamp.
Now, we know that players like Mab, Uriel or Vadderung have incredible foresight. But even so, Harry manage to surprise Mab a couple times. Predicting this precise chain of event seems far-fetched, even for players in their weight class. The only character we know of who had a shot at that is Rashid, and he cheats.
What I think is that the Red Court - or at least a faction of it, was indeed planning to start a war with the WC. Harry surprised them by starting that war earlier than they'd planned, and they just went with it. Whether by doing this he doomed the White Council or put a big wrench in the bad guys plan, only time will tell. Or Jim. But I suspect that Jim has some manner of control over time, the month of July feels entirely too long this year.
Zolt:
--- Quote from: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 08, 2011, 02:35:58 AM ---I'll bet against. We have no evidence at all that the drug does anything other than opens the Sight. We know the Council hunts warlocks all the time, we know the number is long-term increasing because the population of the planet is increasing.
--- End quote ---
Indeed the Third-Eye has nothing to do with the increasing number of warlocks. But since I doubt Sells invented it himself so whoever gave him the formula must have had something in mind. I have a few ideas what that might be:
- Having lots of people see the "unseen" world wight help cause general panic, and weaken the barrier between both world (as a preparation for the events of Grave Peril).
- Having "mundane" underlings with the Sight can be exceedingly useful. They can help watch for supernatural menaces, or find people with a potential for magic in the general population. The only problem is that said underlings would go insane all too quickly.
- Maybe that's why they decided to distribute Third Eye to the general population. From a large pool of addicts, they can pick those who are most resilient and retain some sanity. Furthermore, these can be controlled through their addiction.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: Rasins on July 08, 2011, 04:05:57 AM ---Sorry, it wasn't Bob. It was in a WoJ from DragonCon .
--- End quote ---
OK, thank you. I'd note that "the side-effects of magic change" does not seem to say that anything else about magic changes.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: Zolt on July 08, 2011, 10:06:45 AM ---I usually hesitate to jump into any thread the Neurovore has been in. Bob-like memory combined with a predator's instinct for pointing out contradictions are though to go up against. Also, the use of pronouns becomes a death trap.
--- End quote ---
If I ever publish any fiction of my own, you've just made the go-to list for blurbs...
--- Quote ---I try to avoid any theory that assumes that Harry is the center of creation (even though he actually is).
--- End quote ---
I don't think he's the centre of creation, but I think he is, without having figured it out enough to really be aware, at manhattan project levels of important in supernatural politics.
--- Quote ---My question however is: Who exactly did the experiment benefit? It wasn't the vampires, or at least Bianca was not involved. That curse seems to be something that the vampires have used in the past - Martin knew about this ritual even before he started his whole double-agent thing. This isn't even a theory at this point, but *someone* wanted to experiment with , and get more data on that spell, then 12 years later *someone* manipulated the vamps to use the same curse, and make it massively overkill.
--- End quote ---
I tend to include that in the same direction as the someone who persuaded the vampires that the attack they carried out in DB was a good idea because they were going to get necrogod support, deliberately threw the Darkhallow, and left the Reds to take a major hit from Faerie in PG, myself.
--- Quote ---[About Bianca's death]As a principle, I hate omniscient villains (and I suspect that the Neurovore might be one, but that's another story).
--- End quote ---
Hardly; I'm really quite nice when you get to know me.
--- Quote ---- Lea manages to steal Amorrachius - purely opportunity based, due to Harry getting hit in the head and making some very bad decisions. This happens at the last minute before the party.
--- End quote ---
The Nightmare is Mavra's sock-puppet. I think; throwing Harry against a tombstone to crack his skull so Lea has to save him is predictable; telling Michael to put the sword down or you crush his wife has a predictable result; injure Charity so that Michael picks her up before the sword is predictable; harry taking the sword and Lea then taking a grab at it is predictable given Harry's sense of duty and Faerie obligations. That whole scene reads to me as stage-managed in real time.
--- Quote ---- Susan decides to show up at Bianca's party.
--- End quote ---
Predictable if you know Susan at all.
--- Quote ---- Harry blows a fuse, throws the accords and everything else out the window and goes up against Bianca.
--- End quote ---
Predictable if you know Harry at all.
--- Quote ---- He actually succeeds in killing her, even though he was captive , deprived of most of his power, and locked in a room with a bloodthirsty half-vamp.
--- End quote ---
Partly plausibly predictable and partly plausibly stage-managed in realtime.
I'm not saying that all of this chain of events was set up in advance (though I'd believe it of Francis Crawford of Lymond, and Mab and Uriel are supposed to be well beyond even the extremes of human capacity there.) I am saying the plan was outlined in advance and events visibly managed as they occurred to keep it on track.
--- Quote ---What I think is that the Red Court - or at least a faction of it, was indeed planning to start a war with the WC. Harry surprised them by starting that war earlier than they'd planned, and they just went with it. Whether by doing this he doomed the White Council or put a big wrench in the bad guys plan, only time will tell.
--- End quote ---
I am more inclined to believe he served the bad guys' plan to a T, there.
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