The Dresden Files > DFRPG Resource Collection
Custom Powers Master List (Work In Progress)
Tedronai:
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on May 28, 2012, 08:22:00 AM ---But this power isn't overpowered or underpowered, as I understand it. The problem is that it's overly loosely defined and might be totally non-functional.
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As I read it, it's no longer a matter of over-/under-powered. It's just plain broken.
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on May 28, 2012, 08:22:00 AM ---It's not compatible with any concept that I'd expect anyone to play, so it probably won't see any PC use. But it should still be costed so that it'd be worth it but not too worth it for a PC.
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Ideally, all powers should be costed to be 'worth it but not too worth it' for PC and NPC alike.
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on May 28, 2012, 08:22:00 AM ---The social benefits of Mindless are not meaningless, but they are hard to put a price on.
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The Social benefits of Mindless do two things:
A) limit the nature of consequences taken from social stress - this is not a benefit worth refresh, particularly given the fact that the player of the victim of an attack chooses the consequence anyway
B) limit the nature of Taken-Out results (including Concesssions) resulting from social stress - this is not a benefit worth refresh, as it in no way reduces the severity of the result, only its narrative form
Each of these 'benefits' could plausibly be deduced from an application of the Aspect associated with the Mindless power (High Concept, if nothing else) to the 'reasonableness test' to which Consequences and Taken-Out results are subject.
It's not that they're difficult to put a price on, it's that they are not justified in having a price at all.
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on May 28, 2012, 08:22:00 AM ---If you start buying back every trapping you lost, you'll soon spend more than you would have just buying the Power without drawbacks. That's because the drawbacks of the power are costed under the assumption that they'll be unimportant to your character, while the benefits are costed under the assumption that they'll be central.
A parallel example would be a Power giving +2 to X and -2 to Y, where X and Y are roughly equally important in a vacuum. It wouldn't be free, obviously. Because I'm not going to take it unless X is more important than Y to me. And if I buy something giving +2 to Y to balance out the drawback, it should totally cost more than just buying +2 to X.
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It makes perfect sense. In a general sense, I wholeheartedly endorse it.
Here, however, it fails utterly. Mostly, again, because of the vague, over-broad reach of the penalty.
I expect to have characters spend more on a bonus of a given magnitude than they'd see back from an equal penalty, but this much more? Your character literally might not be able to get out of the bed in the morning, let alone do anything meaningful that it has perfectly suitable stats for...more? All just to buy off 'your jedi mind tricks don't work on me'?
Sanctaphrax:
--- Quote from: Tedronai on May 28, 2012, 10:02:04 AM ---Ideally, all powers should be costed to be 'worth it but not too worth it' for PC and NPC alike.
--- End quote ---
Yep.
--- Quote from: Tedronai on May 28, 2012, 10:02:04 AM ---The Social benefits of Mindless do two things:
A) limit the nature of consequences taken from social stress - this is not a benefit worth refresh, particularly given the fact that the player of the victim of an attack chooses the consequence anyway
B) limit the nature of Taken-Out results (including Concesssions) resulting from social stress - this is not a benefit worth refresh, as it in no way reduces the severity of the result, only its narrative form
Each of these 'benefits' could plausibly be deduced from an application of the Aspect associated with the Mindless power (High Concept, if nothing else) to the 'reasonableness test' to which Consequences and Taken-Out results are subject.
It's not that they're difficult to put a price on, it's that they are not justified in having a price at all.
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I think you're wrong. A Mindless character can't be intimidated into backing down or talked into doing something dumb. Social attacks cannot affect their actions meaningfully. That's valuable.
Think of the social effects as Social Immunity with a Catch of Reputation-based attacks.
--- Quote from: Tedronai on May 28, 2012, 10:02:04 AM ---It makes perfect sense. In a general sense, I wholeheartedly endorse it.
Here, however, it fails utterly. Mostly, again, because of the vague, over-broad reach of the penalty.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, the vagueness does need to be fixed. But I don't think it's over-broad. There are plenty of characters who have no purpose outside of a fight.
--- Quote from: Tedronai on May 28, 2012, 10:02:04 AM ---I expect to have characters spend more on a bonus of a given magnitude than they'd see back from an equal penalty, but this much more? Your character literally might not be able to get out of the bed in the morning, let alone do anything meaningful that it has perfectly suitable stats for...more? All just to buy off 'your jedi mind tricks don't work on me'?
--- End quote ---
Again, it's obviously insane if you interpret the penalty as broadly as possible. But going with a non-crazy interpretation, it's got rather little effect on some characters.
Don't think of the incapabilities as a cost for having immunity to mental attacks. Think of the immunities as a reward for having no mental abilities.
Basically, this power lets characters opt out of mental stuff entirely. They can't use it and it can't be used on them.
That aside, I'll try and come up with something less vague tomorrow.
PS: The skill pyramids on mindless creatures do get a bit weird, but I've found them to be (barely) workable up to Chest Deep.
Sanctaphrax:
THERE IS NO SALVATION [-2]
Description: The world is not fair. Some beings are just immune to the things that are supposed to make it so.
Skills Affected: None.
Note: While all custom powers are optional, this one is extra-optional. If you don't like it thematically or if you think it encourages an undesirable arms-race mentality, don't use it.
Effects:
Unequal Before God. All Creatures Are Equal Before God is useless against you. The same applies to the Catch-satisfying effect of Sacred Guardian and all similar effects.
MINDLESS [-0]
Description: You don't have a mind. Either you mindlessly obey others or you simply execute a complex program or you operate entirely on instinct.
Musts: You must take an aspect to represent the thing that you use instead for a mind. For example, THE MERLIN'S PROPERTY or PROGRAMMED TO KILL.
Skills Affected: Mental and social skills
Note: This power requires excellent justification if taken by a character with positive refresh. Not for balance reasons, but for logical reasons. As such, this power is mostly unsuitable for player characters.
Effects:
No Mind. As a mindless creature, you cannot be attacked mentally. Duh. You have no mental stress track and never take mental stress. You are not immune to social stress, but social attacks and maneuvers have no effect on your actions even if you are taken out. So unless someone wants to ruin your reputation or credibility, there's no point attacking you socially.
Incapable Of Thought. Not being able to think has its downsides. You may never use the listed trappings of the following skills: Burglary (Casing, Infiltration), Contacts (All Trappings), Conviction (All Trappings), Deceit (All Trappings), Discipline (All Trappings), Driving (Street Knowledge And Navigation), Empathy (All Trappings Except Social Initiative), Guns (Gun Knowledge), Intimidation (Provocation, Interrogation, Social Attacks), Investigation (Examination), Lore (Arcane Research, Common Ritual), Performance (All Trappings), Presence (Command), Rapport (All Trappings), Resources (All Trappings), Scholarship (All Trappings Except Languages), Survival (Scavenging, Animal Handling, Camouflage), Weapons (Weapon Knowledge).
Superior Instincts/Programming [-1]. The complexity of your program or your instincts is impressive. Select one skill trapping. Ignore the effects of Incapable Of Thought on that trapping. This trapping may be purchased multiple times.
PS: Not sure whether to have Mindless affect Craftsmanship. Thoughts?
Tedronai:
the Skills Affected line of No Salvation is wrong. Copy-pasted from Mindless?
Purely instinctual creatures are quite capable of performing many of the trappings listed as banned, most particularly the Survival trappings. I'm pretty sure multiple instances of Superior Instincts should not be a default upgrade simply to represent the capabilities of insect-level 'non-intelligence'.
Beyond that, simply 'programming' an entity to store and retrieve information (meaning any and all of the 'knowledge' trappings) on command is neither particularly complex nor impressive when one is already capable of programming it to reliably distinguish friend from foe, navigate complex terrain, or just plain walk without falling over.
These problems would be what I believe I described earlier as 'your own arbitrary definitions' (or something to that effect).
As for the benefits of this power 'no effect on your actions' is an inappropriate limitation. A social consequence or taken-out result might mean that a large crowd stands in your path, preventing you from achieving whatever your goal might be without first dealing with the crowd. This has an 'effect on your actions', and would thus be banned by this power, but is entirely in keeping with the concept.
Sanctaphrax:
--- Quote from: Tedronai on May 31, 2012, 04:35:07 AM ---the Skills Affected line of No Salvation is wrong. Copy-pasted from Mindless?
--- End quote ---
Yes. Will fix. Thanks for pointing it out.
--- Quote from: Tedronai on May 31, 2012, 04:35:07 AM ---Purely instinctual creatures are quite capable of performing many of the trappings listed as banned, most particularly the Survival trappings. I'm pretty sure multiple instances of Superior Instincts should not be a default upgrade simply to represent the capabilities of insect-level 'non-intelligence'.
Beyond that, simply 'programming' an entity to store and retrieve information (meaning any and all of the 'knowledge' trappings) on command is neither particularly complex nor impressive when one is already capable of programming it to reliably distinguish friend from foe, navigate complex terrain, or just plain walk without falling over.
These problems would be what I believe I described earlier as 'your own arbitrary definitions' (or something to that effect).
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I'm open to the possibility that my biases might be screwing this up. What changes would you suggest?
Bear in mind that animals, while dumb, are not Mindless. You can social-fu them with Survival and control them with Domination.
For a computer, retrieving info isn't hard. But zombies and golems and super-sized microbes and other such things, who are the typical users of Mindless, are totally incapable of such actions.
Maybe I should group trappings together so that they can be purchased together for a discount with Superior Programming. That'd let robots be made at reasonable costs.
--- Quote from: Tedronai on May 31, 2012, 04:35:07 AM ---As for the benefits of this power 'no effect on your actions' is an inappropriate limitation. A social consequence or taken-out result might mean that a large crowd stands in your path, preventing you from achieving whatever your goal might be without first dealing with the crowd. This has an 'effect on your actions', and would thus be banned by this power, but is entirely in keeping with the concept.
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Alright, I'll change the wording a bit.
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