The Dresden Files > DFRPG Resource Collection
Custom Powers Master List (Work In Progress)
Tedronai:
Swarm Body could use a language cleanup, but otherwise appears to be substantially improved.
Replace ', reduce that...' with ', you take only a single point of stress.'
Re: Shadow Manipulation
If that's the direction you'd be taking for Shadow Manipulation, I'd likely just call the whole thing a refluffing.
(assuming this is the most recent version of Long Reach) Add some refluffed form of Glamours to Long Reach to represent the ability to produce blocks against perception.
(assuming this is the most recent version of Telekinesis) Add a perception block upgrade, or replace the current physical block upgrade with a perception block upgrade as appropriate to the envisioned theoretical capabilities of the power.
Re: Mindless
Characters who 'can't handle' having the vast majority of skill trappings made unavailable? I'm having trouble conceiving of a character who COULD handle that restriction.
You could try to compile a list of banned trappings, but I doubt you'd be able to do so without running face-first into paradox (especially with the presence of the 'advanced programming' upgrade: if it's possible to take the advanced programming upgrade, then the trapping does not, in fact, require thought, and the advanced programming upgrade is not necessary), no-true-scottsman, your own arbitrary definitions, etc..
Frankly, I don't think banning trappings in that way can ever really work reliably in this system. I'd leave it as compel fodder.
Sanctaphrax:
--- Quote from: Tedronai on May 28, 2012, 04:27:53 AM ---Swarm Body could use a language cleanup, but otherwise appears to be substantially improved.
Replace ', reduce that...' with ', you take only a single point of stress.'
--- End quote ---
Thanks, will do.
--- Quote from: Tedronai on May 28, 2012, 04:27:53 AM ---Re: Shadow Manipulation
If that's the direction you'd be taking for Shadow Manipulation, I'd likely just call the whole thing a refluffing.
(assuming this is the most recent version of Long Reach) Add some refluffed form of Glamours to Long Reach to represent the ability to produce blocks against perception.
(assuming this is the most recent version of Telekinesis) Add a perception block upgrade, or replace the current physical block upgrade with a perception block upgrade as appropriate to the envisioned theoretical capabilities of the power.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, those look like the most recent versions to me.
I could make Shadow Manipulation into an upgrade, I guess. But it would feel inelegant. I'll think about it.
--- Quote from: Tedronai on May 28, 2012, 04:27:53 AM ---Re: Mindless
Characters who 'can't handle' having the vast majority of skill trappings made unavailable? I'm having trouble conceiving of a character who COULD handle that restriction.
--- End quote ---
Sue the zombie dinosaur comes to mind. Like the note says, the power is mostly unsuitable for player characters. But it's good for zombies and golems and inanimate objects being modelled as creatures.
--- Quote from: Tedronai on May 28, 2012, 04:27:53 AM ---You could try to compile a list of banned trappings, but I doubt you'd be able to do so without running face-first into paradox (especially with the presence of the 'advanced programming' upgrade: if it's possible to take the advanced programming upgrade, then the trapping does not, in fact, require thought, and the advanced programming upgrade is not necessary), no-true-scottsman, your own arbitrary definitions, etc..
Frankly, I don't think banning trappings in that way can ever really work reliably in this system. I'd leave it as compel fodder.
--- End quote ---
What if the bans were replaced with big penalties? Would that be workable?
See, I don't really want to make having no brain super expensive. So I need to balance out the mental invincibility somehow. And I don't like the idea of having to find an in-game justification for when Sue refuses the "you can't do occult research" Compel.
These problems can solve each other. Sure, the Mindless Power will be unsuitable for PCs. But nobody (that I've ever heard of) wants to play a character without a brain anyway.
Oh, and the Superior Programming thing doesn't present any problem that I can see. It lets you do something that requires thought without thought. Doing the impossible is standard for Powers, right?
PS: In retrospect, Telekinesis should probably allow blocks without an upgrade. After all, Guns can be used for blocks.
Tedronai:
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on May 28, 2012, 05:18:04 AM ---Sue the zombie dinosaur comes to mind. Like the note says, the power is mostly unsuitable for player characters. But it's good for zombies and golems and inanimate objects being modelled as creatures.
--- End quote ---
I don't have difficulty coming up with characters who could conceivable have a power to represent their 'mindlessness', what I have difficulty with is conceiving of a character incapable of executing any trapping of a skill that the GM concludes 'requires thought'. The problem being that that variable is wholly undefined. From a player's point of view, then, until it has been defined, or at least refined, it must be assumed to be as punitive as it could possibly be.
I cannot conceive of a character that could function should the GM, on a whim, decide that using Fists to attack requires thought, or that using Athletics to overcome physical obstacles to movement requires thought, or that using Investigation to locate the source of a scent requires thought. All of those things, for humans (which, I'm pretty sure are the go-to example of 'thinking beings' these days), require thought, even for highly trained experts, to some minimal degree.
I have difficulty conceiving of a functional character that cannot perform the most basic of tasks.
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on May 28, 2012, 05:18:04 AM ---What if the bans were replaced with big penalties? Would that be workable?
--- End quote ---
I doubt it, but if you write something up, maybe you'll prove me wrong.
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on May 28, 2012, 05:18:04 AM ---See, I don't really want to make having no brain super expensive. So I need to balance out the mental invincibility somehow. And I don't like the idea of having to find an in-game justification for when Sue refuses the "you can't do occult research" Compel.
--- End quote ---
Well, for starters, I'd ask the player how they think they're going to justify having points in a research skill in the first place, and then wait to be impressed. I'd do that during character creation. Because Sue does not seem to be the Brains-y type.
After the compel was in play, though you'd deal with it in the same way that you'd deal with a BCV refusing a 'the sun is rising' compel. Find whatever flimsy excuse you need for that situation simply not to inconvenience the character.
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on May 28, 2012, 05:18:04 AM ---These problems can solve each other. Sure, the Mindless Power will be unsuitable for PCs. But nobody (that I've ever heard of) wants to play a character without a brain anyway.
--- End quote ---
As I believe you've pointed out yourself in the past (or it might have been someone else and I'm confused), simply marking a power available only to NPCs does not make it balanced. Rather, it demonstrates just how UNbalanced the power actually is.
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on May 28, 2012, 05:18:04 AM ---Oh, and the Superior Programming thing doesn't present any problem that I can see. It lets you do something that requires thought without thought. Doing the impossible is standard for Powers, right?
--- End quote ---
If you don't think a paradox (something that, by its own definition, can't happen, rather than 'magic' which merely defies conventional understanding) is a problem, how about a simple costing conundrum?
How many trappings do you imagine could possibly be barred by Mindless? How much refresh would it cost to gain immunity to mental stress? How much refresh would it cost to overcome the drawbacks of Mindless, a power which offers no benefit beyond mental stress immunity, but includes a significant drawback (something generally represented as affording a rebate)
Sanctaphrax:
--- Quote from: Tedronai on May 28, 2012, 07:23:55 AM ---I don't have difficulty coming up with characters who could conceivable have a power to represent their 'mindlessness', what I have difficulty with is conceiving of a character incapable of executing any trapping of a skill that the GM concludes 'requires thought'. The problem being that that variable is wholly undefined. From a player's point of view, then, until it has been defined, or at least refined, it must be assumed to be as punitive as it could possibly be.
I cannot conceive of a character that could function should the GM, on a whim, decide that using Fists to attack requires thought, or that using Athletics to overcome physical obstacles to movement requires thought, or that using Investigation to locate the source of a scent requires thought. All of those things, for humans (which, I'm pretty sure are the go-to example of 'thinking beings' these days), require thought, even for highly trained experts, to some minimal degree.
I have difficulty conceiving of a functional character that cannot perform the most basic of tasks.
--- End quote ---
This is what I was worried about. What trappings are forbidden is too vague. It's certainly not intended to include running or punching, but it can be read that way. I should probably do something about that.
--- Quote from: Tedronai on May 28, 2012, 07:23:55 AM ---Well, for starters, I'd ask the player how they think they're going to justify having points in a research skill in the first place, and then wait to be impressed. I'd do that during character creation. Because Sue does not seem to be the Brains-y type.
After the compel was in play, though you'd deal with it in the same way that you'd deal with a BCV refusing a 'the sun is rising' compel. Find whatever flimsy excuse you need for that situation simply not to inconvenience the character.
--- End quote ---
You don't need skill points to make skill rolls. If Sue has no points in Lore, she can still attempt occult research.
Anyway, avoiding the need to make super-flimsy Compel refusal justifications is a good thing. It's often not practical, but here I think its doable.
--- Quote from: Tedronai on May 28, 2012, 07:23:55 AM ---As I believe you've pointed out yourself in the past (or it might have been someone else and I'm confused), simply marking a power available only to NPCs does not make it balanced. Rather, it demonstrates just how UNbalanced the power actually is.
--- End quote ---
Very true. I have pointed that out.
But this power isn't overpowered or underpowered, as I understand it. The problem is that it's overly loosely defined and might be totally non-functional.
It's not compatible with any concept that I'd expect anyone to play, so it probably won't see any PC use. But it should still be costed so that it'd be worth it but not too worth it for a PC.
--- Quote from: Tedronai on May 28, 2012, 07:23:55 AM ---If you don't think a paradox (something that, by its own definition, can't happen, rather than 'magic' which merely defies conventional understanding) is a problem, how about a simple costing conundrum?
How many trappings do you imagine could possibly be barred by Mindless? How much refresh would it cost to gain immunity to mental stress? How much refresh would it cost to overcome the drawbacks of Mindless, a power which offers no benefit beyond mental stress immunity, but includes a significant drawback (something generally represented as affording a rebate)
--- End quote ---
A mental version of Physical Immunity should probably cost 8 Refresh, minus Catch value. The social benefits of Mindless are not meaningless, but they are hard to put a price on.
If you start buying back every trapping you lost, you'll soon spend more than you would have just buying the Power without drawbacks. That's because the drawbacks of the power are costed under the assumption that they'll be unimportant to your character, while the benefits are costed under the assumption that they'll be central.
A parallel example would be a Power giving +2 to X and -2 to Y, where X and Y are roughly equally important in a vacuum. It wouldn't be free, obviously. Because I'm not going to take it unless X is more important than Y to me. And if I buy something giving +2 to Y to balance out the drawback, it should totally cost more than just buying +2 to X.
Does that make sense?
ways and means:
I would work the power so it prohibits a mindless monster from taking part in social or mental combat, they can't do social or mental attacks, maneuvers or blocks but they also can't be effected by such actions. Also for a mindless creature the skill pyramid will be very stupid as an Iron Golum would have a lot physical stats really high endurance and might would need to be at least superb and to get those stats you would need to have a whole bunch of skills a Iron Golum wouldn't/couldn't have.
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