The Dresden Files > DFRPG Resource Collection
Custom Powers Master List (Work In Progress)
Sanctaphrax:
Wizards might, on balance, be stronger than Werewolves. But it's hardly clear-cut, and werewolves do have significant advantages.
So playing a werewolf is justifiable from a power perspective. Playing a Focused Practitioner Crafter when 6-focus Rune Magic is available isn't.
Having Odin mess with you is a Compel, and therefore profitable for you. The weaknesses of Sponsored Magic have to be something else in order for them to actually be weaknesses.
The incoherent concepts show up when the Wizard realizes that he'd be a lot better off with Wings and Supernatural Toughness with a +3 Catch both linked to a Feeding Dependency. Now, a great roleplayer might be able to make that work seamlessly. But in most people's hands there will be some twisting involved.
PS: Your comment about cherry picking actually offended me and in the interests of politeness I won't reply to it.
PPS: What are you talking about when you say "standard Sponsorship benefits"?
PPPS: Even if we were to accept your utterly wrongheaded idea that the system should make Sponsored Magic strictly better than normal magic, making something better than Crafting would still be really dumb. Trust me, Crafting is really freaking strong.
UmbraLux:
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on February 21, 2012, 04:26:49 AM ---Wizards might, on balance, be stronger than Werewolves. But it's hardly clear-cut...<snip>
--- End quote ---
This is something we differ on...but no need to argue it out again. Just pointing out that opinions differ on relative power levels.
Regarding power levels and choice, I do know of some groups made up primarily or even solely of casters. Can't say the same of any other template.
As for "cherry picking" powers, I agree with Dr D...and disagree with him also. I like and try to encourage themed characters. But trappings on powers can change. Injun Joe might have True Shapeshifting with the trappings of spellcasting, Mort might have Modular Abilities with the trappings of Ectomancy, and "Billy Joe Bobby Sue" might have Inhuman Strength with trappings of WWF (or whatever) wrestling. So yes, powers should fit a theme but no, I'm not going to lock myself or my players down to one possible explanation for each power.
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on February 21, 2012, 04:26:49 AM ---Wizards might, on balance, be stronger than Werewolves. But it's hardly clear-cut, and werewolves do have significant advantages.
So playing a werewolf is justifiable from a power perspective. Playing a Focused Practitioner Crafter when 6-focus Rune Magic is available isn't.
Having Odin mess with you is a Compel, and therefore profitable for you. The weaknesses of Sponsored Magic have to be something else in order for them to actually be weaknesses.
The incoherent concepts show up when the Wizard realizes that he'd be a lot better off with Wings and Supernatural Toughness with a +3 Catch both linked to a Feeding Dependency. Now, a great roleplayer might be able to make that work seamlessly. But in most people's hands there will be some twisting involved.
--- End quote ---
Well, like I said, I'm alright with 5, so if it's that big a deal, go ahead and write it that way.
--- Quote ---PS: Your comment about cherry picking actually offended me and in the interests of politeness I won't reply to it.
--- End quote ---
Then I apologize. I myself was a little offended by being told that something I said was "profoundly awful" and enabling to powergamer munchkins. For what it's worth, I didn't mean that you, specifically, did that, I just wanted to point out that some groups (or at least, the ones I've been part of) give equal or more weight to the narrative aspects than mechanical benefits.
--- Quote ---PPS: What are you talking about when you say "standard Sponsorship benefits"?
--- End quote ---
All the Sponsored Magics listed in Your Story mention standard sponsor benefits in their descriptions, linking to YS 288. Most of which is probably already covered by the features we've put into Rune Magic, admittedly, but when I typed it I was mostly thinking of the whole 'free invoke for debt' bit.
--- Quote ---PPPS: Even if we were to accept your utterly wrongheaded idea that the system should make Sponsored Magic strictly better than normal magic, making something better than Crafting would still be really dumb. Trust me, Crafting is really freaking strong.
--- End quote ---
Fair enough. I object to it being called "utterly wrongheaded," however. As UmbraLux points out, we have difference of opinion on relative power levels. I respect that you have a much firmer grasp of the rules than I do, which is why I'm participating in these discussions--I want and value your feedback. But you could lighten up on the language just a little bit.
Sanctaphrax:
Not really going to try for coherence here: please excuse my rambling.
-I'm sorry if I insulted you. I intended nothing of the sort. My policy for these things is to be polite to people, but merciless to ideas.
-My criticism of your ideas does not imply any criticism of you personally.
-I also like to encourage themed characters, and I find that powers with defined themes tend to make themed characters hard to make.
-While wizards are almost always stronger than werewolves, you can't deny that there is an almost there. The almost is important and must be preserved. Werewolves actually have the edge over wizards in social stuff and they have a couple of tricks that wizards have trouble duplicating.
-All Sponsored Magics are supposed to allow debt-taking. I dunno, maybe I should make that clearer.
-Are there any problems left with Rune Magic? Or can we call it done?
-I'm actually not all that savvy rules-wise outside of a couple of narrow areas. But I keep Your Story at hand and I look things up often so I come across as knowledgeable online.
-One thing I see a lot that really bugs me is a presumption that all real roleplayers ignore mechanics in favour of narrative. That presumption is often used to justify mechanics that really aren't fun for people who care about optimization. Which is just dumping on a fraction of the playerbase for no real reason.
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on February 22, 2012, 09:10:28 AM ----I'm sorry if I insulted you. I intended nothing of the sort. My policy for these things is to be polite to people, but merciless to ideas.
-My criticism of your ideas does not imply any criticism of you personally.
--- End quote ---
Fair enough. I've learned it's hard to distinguish between calling someone's ideas dumb and calling the person themselves dumb, so no hard feelings.
--- Quote ----While wizards are almost always stronger than werewolves, you can't deny that there is an almost there. The almost is important and must be preserved. Werewolves actually have the edge over wizards in social stuff and they have a couple of tricks that wizards have trouble duplicating.
--- End quote ---
While I agree that it comes down on an individual basis, I'd say that a basic wizard optimized for combat is going to beat a basic werewolf optimized for combat pretty handily. ("basic" here meaning straight up template).
--- Quote ----All Sponsored Magics are supposed to allow debt-taking. I dunno, maybe I should make that clearer.
-Are there any problems left with Rune Magic? Or can we call it done?
--- End quote ---
It looks good to me. Functional in the way the books imply, and I wouldn't have to change too much of what my Valkyrie was already able to do with the previous version.
--- Quote ----One thing I see a lot that really bugs me is a presumption that all real roleplayers ignore mechanics in favour of narrative. That presumption is often used to justify mechanics that really aren't fun for people who care about optimization. Which is just dumping on a fraction of the playerbase for no real reason.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I didn't want to start up a "you're not a true gamer IF..." argument. From what I've seen of your posts, it seemed to me that you speak a lot about the mechanics for these things without much mention of the narrative (you see compels purely as a bonus, since you get fate points, I see compels as having something of a penalty, because it complicates the character's life and choices, for instance, hence my comments that having Odin looking over your shoulder might be a reason not to play with Rune Magic).
But anyway, back on topic, yeah, Rune Magic looks good.
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