Taken Out Result

[ways and means]

If a WCV PC took out an enemy with Incite Emotion and then said as taken out result he wanted the enemy dead from feeding (so he could heal) the correct response is too say no isn't it? 

[luminos]

The correct response is to say yes.  Seriously, its one of the rules.  Several of them in fact, for that particular example.  The person who takes someone out always decides what happens to the person taken out (as long as its reasonable, and killing from feeding happens enough in the books that this example is very reasonable). 

Killing someone with incite emotion gives emotional vampires an immediate free recovery.  This is also one of the rules.

Saying no is flat out, no gray area, cheating.

[Belial666]

Actually, it depends.

If it was ranged incite emotion, then the target may be dead, insane, dominated or similar but the vampire cannot have fed.
if it was melee incite emotion but the vampire did not double the attack into a feeding, then the results are as above and the PC either forgot or chose not to feed.
If it was melee incite emotion and the vampire doubled up the attack into a feeding, then the target is dead and the vampire gets free recovery.

[sandchigger]

Yeah, that's a valid consequence of a WCV feeding.

(click to show/hide)

I doubt the sisterhood wanted Thomas to take out their girl in Backup, but them's the breaks!

[luminos]

@Belial you are incorrect.  By the example, the player chose to kill the character in order to feed.  The players choice to kill is not in question, and is fully unquestionably supported by the rules.  The players choice to feed is also not presented as being in question.  The ranged/melee dichotomy could be a point of contention, yes (although its borrowing trouble to include stipulations not included in the original example) but the rules for emotional vampire (YS 189) make no such distinction in the Taste of Death entry, so even then it would be worth establishing a line on the issue before it came up rather than just handwaving the players attempts away in the middle of play.

[WillH]

Actually, it depends.

If it was ranged incite emotion, then the target may be dead, insane, dominated or similar but the vampire cannot have fed.
if it was melee incite emotion but the vampire did not double the attack into a feeding, then the results are as above and the PC either forgot or chose not to feed.
If it was melee incite emotion and the vampire doubled up the attack into a feeding, then the target is dead and the vampire gets free recovery.

Even in those first two cases you could describe the taken out result as the victim being overwhelmed with emotion and made helpless allowing you to move in and feed. The only way it would really be an issue is if there was still an ongoing fight and feeding would require you to change zones, or if touching the victim was somehow impossible at the moment.

[Belial666]

If a WCV PC took out an enemy with Incite Emotion and then said as taken out result he wanted the enemy dead from feeding

Emphasis mine. Incite Emotion causes mental stress but is not Feeding - that's what the player is said to have used. Emotional Vampire can also cause mental stress and is feeding - and is a separate ability that can be (but is not automatically) used at the same time. So, if the player used Incite Emotion in melee and took out the target but forgot to also use Emotional Vampire at the same time, no feeding.
Yes, it is kinda dumb to forget to use the actual feeding ability but if you first kill with just Incite you can't then declare it a feeding.


The issue is that Incite Emotion can kill. Once you kill the target, you can't then feed on it. If the target had been declared insane with lust or whatever as a takeout, then feeding would be possible. But he was killed.

[Silverblaze]

Target: dead regardless.

Fed on to heal: only say no if Belial was correct and the player forgot.

Two caveats: #1 if you do not want the NPC dead : try a compel + escalation. #2  If for story purposes you think feeding would save the PC or party trouble in an upcomming encounter it is within your prerogative to allow it.

[Tsunami]

The issue is that Incite Emotion can kill. Once you kill the target, you can't then feed on it. If the target had been declared insane with lust or whatever as a takeout, then feeding would be possible. But he was killed.

Actually, you were the one to say that the victim was killed by incite emotion. The original wording was " took out an enemy with Incite Emotion".

My Opinion.
A taken out victim, as long as still alive, can be fed upon without trouble.
If the conflict is over, simply go with the dead from feeding result, and narrate it as the WCV Feeding on the helpless victim after the conflict as part of the take out.
If the Conflict is not yet over, and the character want's to feed and heal mid conflict but forgot to use his feeding power when taking out the target, then i'd let him feed on the taken out victim and heal, but I'd have that take up his next action.

[Roxy Rocket]

Listen to the Tsunami. The Tsunami is wise.

But sometimes dead isn't dead. You might just get a new hair color and a fancy motorized chair with rockets and machine guns built into it or go around in life sustaining metal armor saying things like "I am the Law."

[WillH]

You know, I would not be surprised if the player in question does not even realize there is a distinction between incite and feeding. If that's the case don't play gotcha with them. Just let them feed. Heck, I would assume someone with both abilities was doing both unless they specifically said otherwise or it was not possible.

[ways and means]

I am a little bit wary of allowing white court vampires to attack mentally twice a turn (balance issues) and so only allow them to feed and incite when they use the manouvre part of incite emotion which for this particular white court vamp loses him his +4 weapons so he was inciting for damage maxing reasons from the same zone.

[Tedronai]

You don't have to allow him to attack twice in a turn.  Just let him count the incite roll, with all attendant bonuses and effects, as the feeding roll as well, with all attendant bonuses and effects.  That way, they can block and attack at the same time, or they can maneuver and attack at the same time, or they can attack with a stress bonus.
As is RAW.

[Belial666]

RAW says they can use both Incite and Feed at the same time. It doesn't say that, if the Incite has the stress upgrades, you can't use lasting/potent emotion + feed at the same time (which results into double stress, effectively)

[Tedronai]

My interpretation, above (allowing the combination, when both are applicable, with all benefits of both, but not two instances of stress), is probably the LEAST generous interpretation supported by the RAW.