Two Power Questions

[Save_vs_DM]

So, I'm working a PC (sadly for the fun of it, since I think I'm only ever going to be the GM for DF) and I've been thinking about two powers and wondering if they're balanced or not. Was hoping to get some feedback and consensus here.

The first is Supernatural Sense (Analytical Taste). Basically this guy can taste something and immediately tell you what it is, what ingredients went into it, and maybe even where said ingredients were produced or grown. But that's it. So this is a guy who could totally get the secret formula of Coke by tasting it. Or he could tell you where the grapes in a wine were grown. But he couldn't taste blood at a murder scene and tell you who's it is or what their blood type was.

Question is, do you think that's a valid use of Supernatural Sense, or is it too overpowered? I'm kind of on the fence about it. I'd totally allow it if one of my players asked me, but I wanted to get some feedback. It almost feels too powerful for a single point of refresh.

The second power was Physical Immunity with the Catch that it only works against ingested poisons. Now, I have this priced at a +5 rebate (+2 for only protecting against one thing, +2 because not ingested poisons is INCREDIBLY easy to find, and +1 because a wizard would know about it) but I have a hard time thinking that Immunity to Ingested Poisons is worth as much as Evocation. But that's what the rules get me.

Do you think a +7 catch (reducing the power to -1) would be too much for that immunity? Or should I go with the rules and just accept that my concept is going to require -4 refresh in powers?

And FYI, I don't really have a GM to appeal to. In our group I'm the GM. That and this guy is an alchemist and I just thought that it would be neat if he was a super taster and immune to ingested poisons.

[Haru]

First, the supernatural sense would be a bit much for my taste (pun intended ). For him to know where things are from just by tasting it should not be part of the power. If however he knows about the stuff he tasted, he can then identify the origin by that knowledge, but not by tasting alone.

For example: "This wine seems to have slightly more iron content than other wines."

If he knows about it, he could then deduce, that: "There is one vineyard that has unusually high iron content in the soil, so the wine must be from there."

There are people that can do that without a supernatural power with wine, but I hope you know what I mean by that example. Knowing the origin of something by tasting it would be, in my opinion, a power of its own.

As for the physical immunity:

I would go ahead and count like this:
It only protects against a specific thing [+2], anything else is easy to come by [+2] and finally anyone could easily find it out (for example by doing anything that is not trying to kill you via poison) [+2]

Which brings you to a cost of -2 for the power, which I think is a fair price for this and the kinds of shenanigans you can do with this. (Inconceivable!)

Or you could argue that:
it not only protects against one specific type of damage, but also against a specific type of exposure to that damage. Injected with a poison your character would be just like anyone else. So that would be [+2] for only poison and another [+2} for only ingested. BUT in that case I would put the knowledge of the catch to "must personally know you", so you don't get anything from there and would still be at -2 refresh cost. Like I said above, I think that is not too pricy.

Of course there is still the question of what is a "poison"? Powers like this tend to block out anything that is ingested and not just food, especially medicine or in the case of your alchemist, he might be immune to his own potions. So you might not want to aim too high with the rebate, because you might end up with a bargain on your superpower, just to figure out, that it was not, what you bargained for.

[Saedar]

I don't see too much trouble with allowing Supernatural Senses, with maybe an extra surcharge. The book does say that more powerful senses may be possible at a cost of another one or two refresh.

As for the poison immunity, I would say -1 or -2 would be an appropriate total, depending on how specific the immunity is. I would probably go with -2.

[Tsunami]

You could simply expand the poison immunity to "all poisons" that would still be a +5 catch, it would still fit the concept, and you'd have gotten your moneys worth.

As for the Sense, i see no problem there. It basically allows to use alertness to make assessments regarding composition and origin of a substance.
The more complex or exotic the substance, the harder the assessment.
It can potentially replace Scholarship and Investigation rolls.
Totally within the range of supernatural sense.

[ways and means]

I don't see a problem with Analytical Taste it is very non-game breaking and when you consider that supernatural sense can be used to read minds (detect something normally you can't detect like thoughts) or even detect someones worst fears in comparison analytical taste is quite tame. 

[Becq]

Regarding the taste power, I would consider clarifying that:
* it allows identification of main ingredients by flavor, including the ability to discriminate between variations (like identifying the vineyard a wine came from)
* it does not grant knowledge of the exact proportions of each ingredient or formul by which it was created
* it does not allow identification of any ingredients that don't contribute to flavor (for example, some poisons that are tasteless)
* it does not grant knowledge of ingredients never experienced (though the presence of an unfamiliar flavor would be known, and likely recognized if it was ever tasted later)

This would give most of the 'spirit' of the power without leading to abuse along the lines of: "I taste Coke.  Then I start up a new company to compete with Coke.  Then I do the same thing with McDonalds, Pizza Hut, ..."

[Samael]

Becq, I think your being a bit paranoid about this power, given that this is still a supernatural sense and their are a lot more broken applications for it as mentioned above IE telepathy then being able to taste things and everything about it.

I'd leave it open ended and say that it is interesting and truth be told seems more like an aspect which can be invoked for effect then anythng.

[Becq]

I don't think Telepathy is covered by Supernatural Senses either, by the way.  The ability to 'Sense Hope' given as an example is definitely a minor subset of Telepathy.  Full or even partial Telepathy would fall under the 'gamebreaker' clause described in the power, and would cost more than -1 refresh, if allowed at all.  (If Telepathy isn't gamebreaking, then I have no idea what would be, since it would grant the sample gamebreaking ability of detecting Truenames and then some.)

[Samael]

I never said telepathy was correct, which is why I used it as my example of broken supernatural senses. And if a minor talent did as you suggested with this power and pulled a competing corporation out nowhere they better have the resources to back that up, possibly even as an apex skill being mandatory. In fact that might be a decent concept right there; a supernatural senses minor talent with a businessman/chef edge....

[ways and means]

Ok I won't call my supernatural sense telepathy I will call it detect thoughts, which is detecting something you cannot normally sense, considering the max level you could justify this would be detecting surface thoughts not memories (probably with an empathy/alertness/ lore roll at a difficulty equal to the opponents deceit skill) it might not be that broken, how often do people think about their name in everyday life etc. Though it is almost certainly one of those strong powers worth two or three refresh.

[Save_vs_DM]

Thanks for the feedback folks. I'm trying to stat this guy out as an Up to your Waist level character and I don't think the immunity to poisons thing is gonna make the cut. It was a fun idea but I can see the argument for actually make it that expensive. (For what it's worth, I'm thinking a blanket immunity to Toxins would be the way to go).

As for the taste power, I'm thinking that I might just list it as "heightened taste" and call it being able to make assessments and declarations with Alertness when it comes to taste. That lets the GM (if one ever materializes) set the difficulty or if it's even possible.

I should state that my intention with the power was letting him sort of analyze other potions and liquids by taste. Not enough to actually let him reproduce them right then and there, but enough to get him started on further research into the area. Mostly it was just kind of a flavor thing that I didn't think was handled well enough by aspects.

[evileeyore]

As for the taste power, I'm thinking that I might just list it as "heightened taste" and call it being able to make assessments and declarations with Alertness when it comes to taste. That lets the GM (if one ever materializes) set the difficulty or if it's even possible.

I should state that my intention with the power was letting him sort of analyze other potions and liquids by taste. Not enough to actually let him reproduce them right then and there, but enough to get him started on further research into the area. Mostly it was just kind of a flavor thing that I didn't think was handled well enough by aspects.

In that case I'd be cool with him being allowed Alertness, Lore, and Scholarship rolls to determine the properties and such.

I'd also allow him to determine blood based on whether or not he's ever tasted it before.  Get a taste at one crime scene, he could probably recognize the same person's blood agian later, he might also be able to recognize other things that blood tests determine, like doing a tox screen, paternity test, etc.