Enchanted items - overpowered?

[bitterpill]

I think that was more because Harrys trench coat is allways on, there used to be a power that could do that in this edition but they overuled it. So yer I suppose without the allways on ability which limited the bonus to lore then you should be able to defend against ambushes with your magic item otherwise it is out of context with the source material. Though I would put the limit that if you could block against ambush then the enchanted item must have automatic activation which takes away your control of when to use its charges.

[Wolfwood2]

Quick question. We were discussing reactive Evocation Blocks in another thread, and it's already stated in the book (YS280) that defensive enchanted items definitely are a reactive Block. But one question that sticks in my mind is this: I'd rule that you can't cast an Evocation Block if you're caught by surprise ... but would a defensive enchanted item be able to reactively Block an attack if caught unawares?

Sure.  To my mind, the balancing factor on enchanted item blocks is that because there's no roll, you can't spend a Fate point and invoke an Aspect to boost the block.  And worse, your opponent can do so.

Oh, I got a 4 on my Guns roll to shoot you in the back and you have a duster with block 5?  I think I'll drop a Fate point and invoke my "I love Guns" aspect.  Would you like to invoke an aspect?  Oh you can't, can you.

[infusco]

Okay, here's another question then:

You need Thaumaturgy to create an enchanted item, and not Evocation, right?

So what restrictions would apply to someone with ONLY Thaumaturgy using an enchanted blasting rod he crafted for himself? According to rules, a practitioner could keep using it endlessly for a point of mental stress. For purposes of these rules, what exactly qualifies as a practitioner?

[Wolfwood2]

Okay, here's another question then:

You need Thaumaturgy to create an enchanted item, and not Evocation, right?

So what restrictions would apply to someone with ONLY Thaumaturgy using an enchanted blasting rod he crafted for himself? According to rules, a practitioner could keep using it endlessly for a point of mental stress. For purposes of these rules, what exactly qualifies as a practitioner?

It really depends on the story the player has put together.  If he can make it make sense, then he qualifies.

[Ophidimancer]

would a defensive enchanted item be able to reactively Block an attack if caught unawares?

Defensive items (ones that provide armor or a block, for example) often consume a use at the time of defense and don’t require a separate action to activate.

The way I read this is that a defensive item doesn't need a separate action to activate because it activates itself, so I would say yes, defensive enchanted items can still block an attack if the wearer is caught unawares.

[Moriden]

The artificer is decent but doest hold a candle to the focused practitioner who chooses summer magic/biomancy as there focus. or even any really specialized mage for that matter.

your objection seems to be that they can get strength 8 affects for zero  to one stress?

Discipline 5, Conviction 5      Modified [7/10]  if offensive casting meant to kill or alter 9/13
Lore 4

Focus items
+4 biomancy [applies to all summer magic rolls as control, as long as within the themes of summer magic.]
+2 Summer magic offensive power.

Summer magic -4
Item of Power  Oaken staff  -1   [Grants Refinement 3] +2 Summer magic: Power, +1 Biomancy: Control other refinement into 2 more focus item slots
Lawbreaker -2 second
Lawbreaker -1 first

depending on st whim you may or may not be able to take another level of refinement to bring it up to 11 shift effects with a control roll of 13 all at submerged power level.

The same general build works equally well with hellfire, or even simple channeling/rituals. alternatively you can grant full evocation and thaumaturgy by dropping 2 points of lawbreaker for very minimal lost in efficiency.

This of course doesn't even scratch the surface of what you can do with complexity 10 rituals at no preparation. especially when you'd have a discipline roll of 13 for any biomantic buff spells and little to no worry about them backfiring due to the expertise provided by it being summer magic.

for example you are afraid that your to much of a blaster and are afraid a sniper might kill you, no problem. Spend about an hour each morning meditating, and otherwise preparing yourself for your daily/weakly buff ritual.
+10 from self assessments should be fairly trivial. so you now have a complexity 20 ritual that you cast in 2-3 rounds with no chance of failure. this effect can give you something like a block 16/8 which just like a ward will weaken instead of disappearing when overcome for duration... oh well spend the other 4 shifts into that, since its a thaumaturgical affect we use the time chart starting at day that pushes it to a month.

Likewise five free tags on an aspect you created is easily possible. Now if your gm frowns on using assessments to boost the complexity of rituals and wont listen that the book clearly says that that is the way to do it, your still fine. you just cast a base complexity 10 spell. for armer 8/4 duration a week. sure its not as powerful but its better or equal to what the artificer is going to have and you can do the same thing with aspect stacking. or rigging up a block instead of simple action for any of your spells with a strength of 8-10 at similarly long duration. and of course since you have summer magic you can do that at evocation speeds while arguably keeping thaumaturgical duration, at 9 shifts for one stress or 2-3 for 10-11 shift evocations, and still reliably control them with your discipline.

[BumblingBear]

Quick question. We were discussing reactive Evocation Blocks in another thread, and it's already stated in the book (YS280) that defensive enchanted items definitely are a reactive Block. But one question that sticks in my mind is this: I'd rule that you can't cast an Evocation Block if you're caught by surprise ... but would a defensive enchanted item be able to reactively Block an attack if caught unawares?

While it seems possibly overpowered, there are few instances in the novels where

(click to show/hide)

Harry gets shot in the back from an unseen enemy and walks away from it because his trenchcoat stopped the bullets.

I think both the source novels and the RAW are pretty clear about this - yes, it is allowed.

Now, my GM in the last session we had ruled that I could either have an "always on" block or armor effect - not either/or.  Since my character sheet listed it as a block, I got to use the block when I was caught unawares.

I hope this helps.  But yeah, items work even if surprised. 

[Moriden]

Now, my GM in the last session we had ruled that I could either have an "always on" block or armor effect - not either/or.  Since my character sheet listed it as a block, I got to use the block when I was caught unawares.

the books pretty clear that you get to choose, unfortunately st whim gets to overrule the books. : /

[BumblingBear]

Also for the record, a character could use fate points to mitigate damage if sniped, they'd just have to find other ways to do it.

You can't really boost an item shield anyway...

You could however say that your aspect of "world weary warrior" has taught you to roll with the punches and take another +2 off the attack.

[Moriden]

You could however say that your aspect of "world weary warrior" has taught you to roll with the punches and take another +2 off the attack.

Not doubting you, but could you find the reference that says you can use a fate point/aspect to reduce another persons roll? i haven't been able to find it, though i think it makes sense.

[BumblingBear]

Not doubting you, but could you find the reference that says you can use a fate point/aspect to reduce another persons roll? i haven't been able to find it, though i think it makes sense.

Honestly I'm not sure that it's in the books explicitly, but it makes sense and fits with the whole fate point system.

The foundation for the fate point system is that nothing is free.  Players have to do some sort of work to get a "free" tag (making it not actually free) and fate points are the basic "money" to pay for things with in-game.

Some GMs may not allow it (using a fate point to activate a relevant aspect that makes sense), but I would bet that Fred would say it's ok.

Still, it's exactly because of situations like this (ambushes) that my character will almost always do a NGM like, "prepared for action" in any scene he is expecting trouble.  Not only will this give a free tag but it is something I can use a fate point on later if I am against a wall.

Oh yeah!  I actually just remembered how the mechanic would work.  The book does not say you don't get a defense in case of an ambush, it says that you "get an effective defense roll of mediocre (0)."  So you'd actually just be adding your +2 invoke to your pre-existing defense roll of 0.

Problem solved and it actually is covered by the RAW.

[Moriden]

Problem solved and it actually is covered by the RAW.

Shiny, thank you.

[Wolfwood2]

Oh yeah!  I actually just remembered how the mechanic would work.  The book does not say you don't get a defense in case of an ambush, it says that you "get an effective defense roll of mediocre (0)."  So you'd actually just be adding your +2 invoke to your pre-existing defense roll of 0.

Problem solved and it actually is covered by the RAW.

Sure you can do that.  It doesn't stack with the block, though.  You don't get to use the block to remove 5 from the 6 shift attack and then use a defensive roll to remove the last shift.  Instead you take the greater of your block or your defensive roll and substract that from the attack.

[BumblingBear]

Sure you can do that.  It doesn't stack with the block, though.  You don't get to use the block to remove 5 from the 6 shift attack and then use a defensive roll to remove the last shift.  Instead you take the greater of your block or your defensive roll and substract that from the attack.

That's true for normal attacks, yes.

However, if I were GMing I would allow it.

If you didn't want to allow it, the player could just take their block as armor and still use fate points to increase their defense roll.

Once again, the situation is actually rather elegantly simple based on the RAW.

You better believe my character would take a 2 armor instead of a 4 block using an enchanted item if he could use what fate points and NGM he had to bump up a 0 defense roll.

[Wolfwood2]

If you didn't want to allow it, the player could just take their block as armor and still use fate points to increase their defense roll.

Which (since it was a gunshot and the defensive roll started really low) means that the player will likely still take some stress rather than none at all.  All good!  The item helped, but it didn't let you become invulnerable by stacking rolls.