Is Soulfire overpowered?

[Lanir]

The basic nature of Soulfire is slightly different as presented in the novels and in the RPG mechanics.

In the novels, it's essential nature is like a tool of the angels or other higher order spirits. The "fires of creation" makes it sound like a fairly big deal. The downside? You don't have an archangel's spirit to power it. You just have little old you. Your spirit is it's fuel and it can and will burn you up if that's what you tell it to do.

In the RPG it's statted out as sponsored magic. But unlike the other types of sponsored magic, it isn't given an Agenda. So the first thing you should do as a GM before you let a player have it is figure out what that agenda is in your game. Why would the character be granted this sort of power? Someone had to give it to them. What was their reasoning? Consider for a moment that this is much like handing a 2 year old a sword. It's a dangerous item they can use to harm others as well as themselves. And unless you wish to provide some active in-character oversight of it's use, the character won't have much to go on.

If you take these together you end up with... a story where Harry is given a dangerous tool. Why? Possibly to perform some act that we haven't seen yet. It sounded useful in the situation he got it but other methods could have been used by his "sponsors" to accomplish similar effects. And the "sponsor" wouldn't do it just to make sure Harry lived unless they wanted him for something later.

So in your game we're back to "What does the sponsor want from your PC?" One of the most poignant stories you could tell in this sort of situation is one where the player stops assuming he knows what's going on and starts asking you this question (which you should refuse to answer except through the story you're running: this is the buy-in you want from the player for an enigmatic ability like this). This is assuming your player is a good Joe in general and didn't reach for this just to try to power twink. If that's what you think he's doing just say you're uncomfortable with Soulfire (you sound like you really are so it's not a stretch here) and have him purchase Thaumaturgy and Channeling (fire) instead. If you think you can make him question things, well... Like any sponsored magic it can dry up at a moment's notice. For any of several reasons which may or may not be immediately obvious to the character. You may want to make certain your player understands what he's getting into if you plan on doing this however. Again, you should really only use this if both you and your player are going to be comfortable with it. In the setting of the Dresden Files the one thing you can say for sure about the sponsor of soulfire is that he has one hell of a poker face. Harry is mostly stuck guessing at what's wanted of him. You could run it differently in your game of course but if you do, you should probably still sit down with the player and hash out your definitions together and make sure you're both on the same page and willing to run with the ability as you've defined it.

[wyvern]

Just my two cents: if I was trying to match the feel of soulfire in the novels, I would not allow it to be purchased on its own.  It's described as "mystical rebar", and "making you more of what you are" - I just don't think that soulfire, without some other kind of magic to feed into, is capable of doing anything at all.  Now, it's no Kemmlerian Necromancy, where you have to be a full-on wizard before you can take it; I'd be perfectly happy to see a character with Soulfire and Channeling: Fire, for example.

But it seems to me that your problem is that you haven't gone in with any limits on what Soulfire alone can do.  Look at Seelie Magic - it's a great example of a stand-alone sponsored magic; it's got a clear thematic focus, some things it's particularly good at (like healing), and some things it just can't do (like ice or decay).  You need to work out what the corresponding description of Soulfire is for your setting; it can't just be "any magic that serves the cause of holiness" - that's far too general; the normal price for "any magic the wizard feels like working" is -8 refresh.  (That's evocation, plus thaumaturgy, plus two refinements to get access to all five evocation elements, in case you were curious where the number came from.)

It's described as the "fires of creation" - maybe it, on its own, works like purifying fire in evocations, and works for creation, repair / healing, and temporary constructs when used with thaumaturgy?  Or maybe in your setting it's roughly equivalent to channeling / rituals for the element of spirit?  Or, etc. - there are plenty of options; pick whatever is right for your game.

[Lanodantheon]

Also remember that any time someone uses Sponsored Magic, it is paid for with a compel. The more they use it, the more The Powers That Be influence your character.

You can use that Soulfire every encounter, but you will end up as the GM's personal B@#$*

[JosephKell]

Actually, the option to have your sponsor pay the fate point to invoke an aspect is not mandatory.  If you don't draw on your credit, you don't have to pay back later with a compel.

But it could be a good house rule, requiring the "free" invoke to be used (and the resulting compel later).

[mostlyawake]

I'm not too worried about Soulfire itself, or its place in the campaign.  I'm a little concerned about the balance within the characters.

We have 5 players, all with magic and have at least one do-gooder aspect.  One specifically has full thaumaturgy and channeling (spirit), with a high concept of "arcane scholar" but aspects such as "not on my watch", reflecting his vows to protect innocents from predation by supernatural entities.

Compare his abilities to that of his associate, who has soulfire.  For essentially the same cost, the soulfire character has more power, with  a price-tag that is essentially ST-fiat (I have to decide if his actions fit with a "sponsor".)

Given that we are playing at submerged, the characters have a lot of power. I'm cool with that.  All I want to do is make sure that he isn't just power-gaming, taking things that give him bonuses with little draw-back.   The problem I have with using debt to keep him in check is that it seems like it may make the game more about his character, as I will have to run more scenarios for him to work off that debt.   The problem I have with him having full access to thaumaturgy at the speed of evocation is that it severely lessens the usefulness of 2 characters who focused on thaumaturgy.  Most basic divinations are less than 5 shifts of power, meaning that if they are investigating something then his character will end up being the one doing the divination.


So, I've had a couple of people agree that soulfire does not explicitly say "at the speed of evocation", which means it might not apply at all.  I'm totally cool with soulfire, as is, if it doesn't allow the speed.  Otherwise, I need something that keeps him balanced with the other members.

[Lanir]

No one can tell you if your player is powergaming or not. That's a personal call. Some people you can give ultimate cosmic power to and they won't unbalance your game. Others you kind of want to slap on a safety helmet, a lot of padding and hand them nerf weaponry and they'll still try to justify taking over the world.

If you're fine with it outside of it having evocation speed... then it's all good. Neither the RPG description and the things Harry does make it sound like it would have allow that sort of speed with the versatile effects of thaumaturgy. I may be wrong but I'm actually not thinking of any examples of Harry using it for anything but evocation actually.

[Ophidimancer]

So, I've had a couple of people agree that soulfire does not explicitly say "at the speed of evocation", which means it might not apply at all.  I'm totally cool with soulfire, as is, if it doesn't allow the speed.  Otherwise, I need something that keeps him balanced with the other members.

Like I said, being able to use Thaumaturgy at the speed of Evocation is not too big a deal, because you can still only summon the same amount of power as you would if you were Evocating.  No grand rituals in a heartbeat unless you can summon up 20+ shifts of power all at once.  All it really does is give access to some of the more delicate magics (healing, summoning, construct building) a bit faster.  Look at the shifts of power someone can summon up and that's about the level of Complexity rituals they could magic up quick with Sponsored Magic.

Plus again, Sponsor Debt can be used to complicate the life of even the most goody of goody two shoes.

As to Sponsor Debt, it wouldn't count as Debt if it didn't cause some sort of conflict for your character.  Even the most stalwart of characters has to have things they care about.  Sponsor Debt should put those things in jeopardy for the Cause.  Find out what the character cares for and make him make the tough choices.

If he is a goody two shoes all around with no family or lover or any other interesting ties to the world  then have him make Superman's choice, where he has too many people to save and not enough of himself to go around.  Compel the character to burn himself out, taking Consequences all the way, in order to be able to accomplish everything the Almighty wants him to do.

On the other hand, you could also try and make him have to make cloudy ethical decisions.  Make a very sympathetic bad guy, like the budding black sorcerer that Molly was.  I bet he wouldn't want to kill a little girl, but he also has to find a way to stop her from ... oops, too late, she's already committed evil, now what Mr. Righteous Crusader?

[Nomad]

Personally, unlike other sponsored magics, I don't allow my players any access to soulfire or hellfire alone. Sure you can use re-bar alone as a tool in a pinch but you need some concrete is my reasioning.

Granted I haven't run many games with soulfire in it but in the few instances where soulfire was on (temporally) the table, I slapped a mild or heavy consequence (or a temp. aspect) onto the character that used it. You are emptying your life/chi/soul to do the job after all.

It might be a bit rough but I think 3 uses of soulfire per session is over doing it if it isn't about to end a story arc (major or bigger milestone), 2 is barely acceptable in a heavy action session.

You have to remember that it probably took Harry a week or more to get back "full" use / dexterity of his right hand after he used it to soulfire his grabbing spell. That stuff can literally leave you paralysed you after 6 or so spells.


*On the other hand, I actually encourage my vic.. Player(s) to use hellfire. I pay him fate points just to have him empower his spells. At no cost to him. Too bad that I am still waiting untill it accumulates something like 10 to 15 debt. It will be really nice to supercharge one of his spells with something like 10 fate points and accidentally wipe his allys and friends during a battle. 

[Todjaeger]

No one can tell you if your player is powergaming or not. That's a personal call. Some people you can give ultimate cosmic power to and they won't unbalance your game. Others you kind of want to slap on a safety helmet, a lot of padding and hand them nerf weaponry and they'll still try to justify taking over the world.

If you're fine with it outside of it having evocation speed... then it's all good. Neither the RPG description and the things Harry does make it sound like it would have allow that sort of speed with the versatile effects of thaumaturgy. I may be wrong but I'm actually not thinking of any examples of Harry using it for anything but evocation actually.

Harry did use Soulfire in a ritual in Turn Coat. 

(click to show/hide)

It was on the island in Lake Michigan when Harry performed the Sanctum ritual and 'Named' the genus loci Demonreach.

Another important (in my opinion anyway ) consideration regarding Soulfire, is that it is powered by ones soul.  How exactly individual GM's are going to handle that can vary, but I would certainly automatically have any casting using Soulfire cause a character stress.  I am inclined to handle it in a fashion very similar to Evocation, where an effect of requiring power up to ones Conviction would cause either no or 1 point of stress, and then for each point of power past a character's Conviction, would require an additional point of stress.  Some key areas of difference with Soulfire though is that a character can use Aspects and Fate points to increase the amount of power and thereby mitigate the number of stress.  The other is that I am not certain which stress track would best represent 'burning up' one's soul.  I tend to waiver between the Physical and Mental stress tracks, though arguments could be made for the Social stress track as well, since an element of the Social track involves ones Presence/personality.