were form question

[jt]

Just a little confused (not a difficult state for me to be in) with Were-Form they change from human into beast with no classic half man half beast form. Does this mean that the character only has his supernatural powers i.e. claws, flight etc in beast form or can he use them in human form too.

just wanted to make sure before I create my character.

[austinmonster]

Well, it depends on what you are talking about.  The were-forms in the template section represent folks like the Alphas.  They are people who turn into animals.  No real supernatural powers beyond that.  However, that's not to say you can't BUILD a were-form untill your heart's content.

The ability you are looking at is called "Human form -1."  This ability means that when you aren't shapeshifted, you are, for all functions, a normal Joe.  Autopsies and the like won't find anything from your corpse other than a tragedy.   However, it means that if you are ambushed, you are just as vulnerable as Billy-Jo Nobody.

If you want to make another type of were-form monster and want to just LOOK human (and still have access to things like Supernatural Speed) you take "Human Guise -0."  It doesn't give you back any more refresh back, but it makes dinner parties a lot easier.

[crusher_bob]

The technical limiter on the human form refund is the you have to have at least 2 points of powers tied up in your shapechanged form. 

So, for example, you could have inhuman strength (-2 refresh) in your human form and supernatural strength (another -2 refresh over inhuman strength) in your beast form and get the human form bonus on the supernatural strength.

[jt]

Ok lets put some meat onto the bones of my character so you can see what I'm after.

I would like to create a character who is a were-rat..... yes that's right a were-rat. He's the butler to one of the other characters possibly the wizard. He is a gentleman's gentleman. He blends into the background but is there to lend aid when needed from pasing the right fork to passing the staff/ rod/ shotgun in a fight.

I saw him as possibly having the senses of a rat in human form and maybe the agility (able to climb most things) as well.

In pure rat form he has all the rat like abilities, agility, jump, speed, climb, tail for balance, sharp teeth and the ablility to fit through small spaces also able to see in dark.

One of his aspects would be that he could eat almost anything and not get sick however old it is.

Reading all that back it sounds like a lot to ask for but I've not got to grips with the rules yet so not sure of the limitations.
Any help would be great.

[crusher_bob]

Well, assuming you want to turn into a (more or less regular) rat, then your powers might look like:

-1 echoes of the beast
Beast sense: enhanced sense of smell?
Beast trapping: eat anything?

-1 beast change (this allows you to change your skills among other things, you are probably stealthier as a rat, for example)

Human form (+1) covering:
-1 diminutive size
-2 inhuman speed
-1 cloak of shadows?

For a total of -5 refresh

------

Assuming you want to go for a sorta rat-man form instead, you might have:

-1 echoes of the beast
Beast sense: enhanced sense of smell?
Beast trapping: eat anything?

-1 beast change (this allows you to change your skills among other things, you are probably better at fighting in rat-man form)

-2 inhuman recovery (you heal quickly, even in your human form)
+2 the catch (silver: obtainable +1, researchable +1)
you can't zero out toughness powers with a catch; you can have a +2 catch because you also have inhuman toughness, another -2 points in you beast form. If you didn't have inhuman toughness as well, this would only be worth +1

Human form (+1) covering:
-1 claws
-2 inhuman speed
-2 inhuman toughness

For a total of -6 refresh

[jt]

Cheers Crusher-bob for the quick and informative reply I will take this on board and see what I can come up with.

[crusher_bob]

And if you want several rate related shape shifting powers, that would fall under 'modular abilities', and you might look like:

-1 echoes of the beast
Beast sense: enhanced sense of smell?
Beast trapping: eat anything?

Human form (+1) covering:
-7 (5 points of modular abilities)

For a total of -7 refresh

------

So as a small rat, you might have:
-1 diminutive size
-1 cloak of shadows
-1 spider walk
-2 inhuman speed

As a big rat, you might have
-1 claws
-2 inhuman strength
-2 hulking size

As a mat-rat
-1 claws
-2 inhuman strength
-2 inhuman speed

or something like that

[edit]
of course, this powerset also means you can do something like turn into

-1 wings
-2 fire breath
-2 hulking size

...
A giant, flying, fire breathing rat like thing as well.

[jt]

LoL  Now thats the type of thing I could go for..... not sure about the fire breathing rat though ..... but man would that surprise someone if he changed in to that.

Once again thanks for spending some time in writing these out for me it really helps.

[CMEast]

Or an alternate form you could take for a little more refresh - turn in to a swarm of rats as quoted from DMW's Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh My!: A Dresdenverse Bestiary - http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,18099.60.html

High Concept: Rat Swarm
Other:
Dangerous Vermin
More Rats Than You Can Shake A Stick At

Skills:

Great: Survival, Fists, Intimidate,
Good: Alertness, Athletics, Endurance,
Fair: Discipline, Presence, Stealth,
Average: Burglary, Conviction, Rapport,

Powers:

Claws [-1]
Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Supernatural Toughness [-4]
The Catch is area effects, or anything else that would effect a significant portion of the swarm [+3]
Zone Wide Attack (The creature can attack every individual in a zone with it's normal attack)[-2]

Total Refresh: -7

Stress:

Mental: OOO
Physical: OOOO(OOOO)
Social: OOO
Armor: 2

Note: Rats are braver in groups, hence the enhanced mental skills.

[Deadmanwalking]

It should be noted that you can also do something like this:

Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Cloak of Shadows [-1]
Beast Change [-1]

Human Form [+1] effecting only,
Diminutive Size [-1]
Claws [-1]

For -6 total.


You only need to put two points into the animal form's powers to make it work mechanically.

[austinmonster]

With modular powers, I wonder if you could find some way to explode into a swarm of rats?  I know nothing in the books does it so far, but it DOES make sense from a metaphysical standpoint - after all, the book talks about how a smaller were-from thing has to stuff it's... well... Stuff into the never never.  It would be tough to have something with the size and experiences of a human crammed down into one rat.... into four hundred rats though...

However, each time one of those rats died, it would be a little bit of you getting squished.  "Ouch! there goes my left kidney!  No!  that was the memories of my boy scout days!"

[Deadmanwalking]

Um, sure? I mean he just posted my (fairly comprehensive) rat swarm stats. Duplicate the powers and you're officially a swarm of rats. Why wouldn't that work? I'd even give full value for the Catch since it's intuitively obvious.

[austinmonster]

It WOULD work. I just didn't notice it.

Austinmonster is <i>Terrible</i> at investigation (-2)

I just think the RP ramifications of having bits of yourself destroyed when you get injured would be interesting.  It would be a veritable fate point factory over time.

[CMEast]

On page YS83, it (Bob) states that were-creatures can store their intellect and mass in the Nevernever and so I'd say that as a swarm, they could take damage without losing limbs or memories. If consequences were suffered I'd say partial paralysis or temporary amnesia would fit fine.

[austinmonster]

Yes, but I thought that was a reference to if the were-from was significantly smaller than the human form?  If you had a 300lb man who split up into 300lbs of rat-fury, you'd have every bit of him here in the physical world.   I suppose some part of him would have to stay in the nevernever to maintain a hive mind though, wouldn't it?

Would still be a blast to play.