McAnally's (The Community Pub) > Author Craft
Originality--How important is it?
meg_evonne:
Uhm, Luke Skywalker, I liked him because he was too shy to grab the girl, too low in self-esteem (or was it too much self-confidence) to initially learn from Yoda, too needy for family to connect, and ultimately that need for family is what put the umph in the scene with his father. So I'd say far from perfect.
Harry Potter, again the too shy, too low in self-esteem, too needy in the family department---interesting... same traits as Luke huh? And she gave him a physical flaw as well--a great wizard that wears glasses?
Sherlock Holmes wasn't able to connect with people although he was excellent at reading people, I don't recall any empathy there for anyone. Also he was a drug addict.
Captain Kirk - every woman in the world was willing to wait for him to give up his Peter Pan childhood and step into a real relationship. They are STILL WAITING for the SOB to grow up! LOL
flaws don't have be gross, blatant, over-wrought things. It can be an inability to regularly balance their checkbook when they are the best and most brilliant mathematician in the world. Oh wait. I really like that one. Have to list that one on my possible character trait list.
As to Drizzt Do'Urden? Got me and feeling like an old idiot. PM me off line and fill me on this paragon of morality? Thanks in advance for doing so. I'm always looking for a good read.
BobForPresident:
Let's see if I can debate these...ya called me out pretty good. :)
--- Quote from: meg_evonne on June 07, 2010, 10:09:42 PM ---Uhm, Luke Skywalker, I liked him because he was too shy to grab the girl, too low in self-esteem (or was it too much self-confidence) to initially learn from Yoda, too needy for family to connect, and ultimately that need for family is what put the umph in the scene with his father. So I'd say far from perfect.
--- End quote ---
None of these things presented roadblocks for the grandiose victory at the end. And I never understood how Yoda was right when he told Luke not to go. Luke ended up fine (missing a hand, I guess...not a problem in Star Wars:)), all of his friends were saved, he learned who Vader was, greatly increased his skills, and the rebels ended up as allies with Calrissian. So...how did Luke's impatience become a fault?
--- Quote from: meg_evonne on June 07, 2010, 10:09:42 PM ---Harry Potter, again the too shy, too low in self-esteem, too needy in the family department---interesting... same traits as Luke huh? And she gave him a physical flaw as well--a great wizard that wears glasses?
--- End quote ---
When is he particularly shy ('cept with Cho - though again, that doesn't impact the story)? He's brave, smart, athletic, charismatic, good-looking, funny, and for most of the novels incredibly popular (Slytherin aka "the grand house of evil children" not withstanding). His longing for a proper family never gets in his way - it's a total asset, one that drives him to value family and make friends ridiculously quickly.
And I wouldn't say that glasses are a personal flaw, but if they were, she presents that the greatest wizard on the planet (D'dore)wears em too.
--- Quote from: meg_evonne on June 07, 2010, 10:09:42 PM ---Sherlock Holmes wasn't able to connect with people although he was excellent at reading people, I don't recall any empathy there for anyone. Also he was a drug addict.
--- End quote ---
Sounds like you trump me in the Holmes dept. I've only read the first novel (and admittedly, only as a kid) and I thought those characteristics you're mentioning (though awesome!) were only from the film. RD Jr rules. :)
--- Quote from: meg_evonne on June 07, 2010, 10:09:42 PM ---Captain Kirk - every woman in the world was willing to wait for him to give up his Peter Pan childhood and step into a real relationship. They are STILL WAITING for the SOB to grow up! LOL
--- End quote ---
Every woman in the world? Hmm...doesn't sound like much of a flaw. I'm just so charming and good looking and dashing and clever and the best captain in Starfleet. Woe is me! :)
--- Quote from: meg_evonne on June 07, 2010, 10:09:42 PM ---flaws don't have be gross, blatant, over-wrought things. It can be an inability to regularly balance their checkbook when they are the best and most brilliant mathematician in the world. Oh wait. I really like that one. Have to list that one on my possible character trait list.
--- End quote ---
I agree. But they should impact the story. If your character has a limp but she can also outrun every other character in the novel and it never hurts or anything...well, then it ain't a flaw.
So the whole Mary Sue thing just doesn't hold up for me. Give your character major flaws...or don't. There's a precendence for success (financial AND literary) for both.
Vash the white:
--- Quote from: meg_evonne on June 07, 2010, 10:09:42 PM ---l flaw as well--a great wizard that wears glasses?
Sherlock Holmes wasn't able to connect with people although he was excellent at reading people, I don't recall any empathy there for anyone. Also he was a drug addict.
--- End quote ---
I have read a lot of the adventures and fall, but not many early ones, and i dare say that "drug addict" is an understatement, but yes i agree
--- Quote from: meg_evonne on June 07, 2010, 10:09:42 PM ---Uhm, Luke Skywalker, I liked him because he was too shy to grab the girl, too low in self-esteem (or was it too much self-confidence) to initially learn from Yoda, too needy for family to connect, and ultimately that need for family is what put the umph in the scene with his father. So I'd say far from perfect.
--- End quote ---
And it would have been weird if he had.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: Shecky on June 06, 2010, 12:36:02 PM ---Honestly? Protagonist sounds like a Mary Sue. A bit too perfect.
--- End quote ---
If she has virtues opposite to Harry Dresden's flaws, give her flaws opposite to Harry Dresden's virtues, perhaps ?
I think that something like this might or might not be a marketable story, but it would almost certainly be an exercise you would learn something from writing, and there's value to that.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
Original stories are still being come up with. Read a collection like Ted Chiang's Stories of Your Life or Greg Egan's Axiomatic for genre examples. Or pretty much anything shorter than a full novel by Robert Reed.
Well-defined genres are easy to market. the balance between "this is derivative" and "this is too weird to see how to sell" is one nobody really understands.
If you must steal, steal from Shakespeare. Steal from the good Shakespeare because that's all stolen, at a plot level, anyway. (Shakespeare was hopeless at plots of his own. Measure for Measure is On Crack; I have a theory that all of jacobean drama is people trying and failing to write worlds where Measure for Measure would make sense.)
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