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What's the difference between discussion and debate?
fairyfreak:
Hummus....the crazy man's queso. I like queso...
Hmmm...is that a debate or a discussion? (Actually, for the record, I think hummus is fine too :D)
I agree with a previous poster that this topic is a concern that the nerdfury over in TV land threads has created. I also agree that the nerdfury will die down eventually.
To me, there is no problem either with debate or discussion, it's all in the tone. And that can be the hardest thing to monitor, because the written word lends itself to be misinterpreted without facial expressions or voice inflections. What one person thinks is a riviting debate on a topic, might be seen as an attack by someone else. This is the trickiest part of internet chatting, trying to create the appropriate tone in your posts to convey what you're trying to say. That's one reason smileys are so important. :D
See, there is a world of difference between:
Man, you're one crazy fool!
and
Man, you're one crazy fool! ;D
So, I guess my advice is to not try and separate discussion and debate (because no one will ever agree on what they mean...which is a debate, right?), but instead, to use more goofy smiley faces. ::)
iago:
Here's an attempt at some constructive feedback for two of the posters on this thread who are starting to derail this thread from its more generalized topic by making it specifically about them. Since that's what's happening, guess what, you'll get me to get specific.
Lightsabre: You have a tendency to use debate tactics which are unpleasant to the other folks in the conversation with you. Probably the biggest problem I can point at is that you tend to be dismissive. You'll say "You're wrong." or "Irrelevant!" -- and at best, you'll hint at your possessing of secret knowledge that supports such a dismissal, without sharing it, without citing your sources, leaving you in a position where people can either agree with your stance on faith, or disagree but in a fashion that's guaranteed to make emotions darker, angrier, and heightened, both on their side and yours. At my most charitable, I can see this as lazy. At my least charitable, this looks like trolling. When it's kept up as a consistent pattern of behavior, I get less charitable. So keep in mind that this tactic (among several others which I'm not getting into) that you casually and regularly employ is guaranteed to put you on a trajectory to where not only the average reader gets annoyed with you, but the admins such as myself start seeing your chosen methods as poisonous to the community and in violation of the "keep it civil" atmosphere we want to promote around here.
Bobtheskull: You probably started out in the right, or at least relatively blameless, in a lot of the discussions around here, but you're starting to become what you have beheld. You're letting yourself get baited, you're getting pulled into exactly the sort of discussions you say you don't enjoy and are trying to avoid, and when you do, you're starting to be a less than pleasant participant in them. As with Lightsabre I do not mean this to say that you can't disagree with people, but the methods and modes of speech being used are starting to fall outside of the "civil, non-derogatory, non-inflammatory, constructive" envelope. I must encourage you to think twice before you post. I've seen you let Lightsabre get your goat several times, and it's only reflected poorly upon you. And then I see you start taking cheap shots at the writers of the TV show -- to their face. This tells me you're getting stressed out by the boards, and letting that stress color your posts. Not a good idea, friend.
Whether either of you take these observations to heart and start enacting immediate change is entirely on you, but I will say that I've privately been keeping the admins in general from taking this whole thing as cause to start handing out warnings on both sides of the rivalry. That wellspring of charity is starting to run dry.
Both of you are walking a line here. It's the line that divides this board between being a welcoming environment and being a hostile environment.
You can imagine which one I will act to promote, and which one I will kill in its crib if needs be.
bobtheskull:
--- Quote from: Kali on February 08, 2007, 12:13:27 PM ---
Bob: In a real debate, no one uses the word "idiot" either. Debates do not equal people flinging invective. It's not about "discussion = gentle, debate = mean". That seems to be your position from what I'm reading, but it's unsupported. Based on what you've said here, what you mean is that you want a thread where you can post opinions and not have people disagree with you unless they're exceedingly polite and gentle about it.
--- End quote ---
I said "if someone feels the urge to use the word Idiot", not "if someone uses the word".
There's a difference. In a real debate, quite often people want to use disparagement. Usually they try to avoid being the first person to do it though.
Debate is by it's very nature argumentative. Discussion isn't.
iago:
--- Quote from: Kali on February 08, 2007, 12:13:27 PM ---This is an idea without merit.
--- End quote ---
You're on to something there. ;)
My main purpose in starting this thread is to see if there *is* merit to be found, vis a vis my "welcoming" vs. "hostile" goals already stated elsewhere in this thread.
If it turns out there isn't, or there isn't enough consensus about how to distinguish the two, it's not something I can move on.
But it certainly needs to be discussed. Or is that debated?
bobtheskull:
--- Quote from: iago on February 08, 2007, 05:26:50 PM ---
Bobtheskull: You probably started out in the right, or at least relatively blameless, in a lot of the discussions around here, but you're starting to become what you have beheld. You're letting yourself get baited, you're getting pulled into exactly the sort of discussions you say you don't enjoy and are trying to avoid, and when you do, you're starting to be a less than pleasant participant in them. As with Lightsabre I do not mean this to say that you can't disagree with people, but the methods and modes of speech being used are starting to fall outside of the "civil, non-derogatory, non-inflammatory, constructive" envelope. I must encourage you to think twice before you post. I've seen you let Lightsabre get your goat several times, and it's only reflected poorly upon you. And then I see you start taking cheap shots at the writers of the TV show -- to their face. This tells me you're getting stressed out by the boards, and letting that stress color your posts. Not a good idea, friend.
--- End quote ---
Fair enough. I know I can be baited and tricked into debate. Unfortunately, it's one thing to recognize one's weaknesses and another to overcome them.
Regarding the other topic with Mr. Wolfe, you closed the subthread. I feel a bit damned if I do and damned if I don't here. I'm not supposed to talk about it but you can admonish me here for it. You've just stated something about the argument I disagree with but I can't defend myself.
Is that really fair?
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