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What's the difference between discussion and debate?
DragonFire:
--- Quote from: bobtheskull on February 08, 2007, 01:13:17 AM ---
--- Quote from: Lightsabre on February 07, 2007, 08:38:28 PM ---Everyone who's posted has seemed to say that discussion is collaborative, and debate is with opposing views.
But I see some issues trying to split these on a board.
FOr instance, if you have a 'discussion' topic, does that mean no one is allowed to disagree? Might make for a very boring thread.
What if somone starts a 'discussion' topic on, say Murphy getting the Sword, and someone else wants to point out the virtues of Thomas getting it. Is that changing it to a debate?
Or if someone wants to debate Murphy/Thomas, does this mean a new thread has to be created specifically for that purpose?
I think most threads have a mixture of discussion/debate in them, and that works.
Everyone seems to have a different definition, and I worry that if we set a 'discussion corner', people will start reporting everything that doesn't seem to agree with their theory.
Case in point, I thought bobtheskull was happy to debate the topic with me, till he suddenly said he wasn't.
--- End quote ---
I wasn't. As I said in the thread in question, I was pointing out a possible explaination of how magic would work in terms of summoning circles. You started to debate on your own in a decision to rip apart my ideas without offering your own.
--- End quote ---
Ok, two things. One please stop trying to paint me as an ogre who tried to come in and trash your house.
You posted a theory, I pointed out flaws.
And what did you think I was arguing? I was arguing my own views, ie thresholds are natural occurances, as with circles, and have nothing to do with belief.
It's all legit.
--- Quote from: bobtheskull on February 08, 2007, 01:13:17 AM ---I felt I *had* to respond to your debate thrusts until I just said the heck with it, and it wasn't worth trying anymore.
--- End quote ---
I didn't force you to respond. You could have opted out of the discussion, or chosen not to respond. Please stop trying to make everything my fault.
you took part, you are partially to blame.
--- Quote from: bobtheskull on February 08, 2007, 01:13:17 AM ---Regarding the sword, it's a discussion until one person suggests Thomas should get it and why, and someone else starts tearing down their argument in order to prove why not.
--- End quote ---
See here it is again. You can say 'tearing down an argument', but can you define it?
--- Quote from: bobtheskull on February 08, 2007, 01:13:17 AM ---
--- Quote from: Amber ---Theory building (no disagreement allowed) vs. (contrary opinions welcome) ?
--- End quote ---
Contrary opinions are welcome, but how one states it is important.
Stating "you're wrong. It can't be the way you describe it because..." is *generally* debate.
Obviously there might be exceptions, for example in a long discussion one might point out a fact that the other missed or forgot. (for example, in another thread here, a question arose as to wards on the doors to Harry's office in the books vs show. There was discussion until someone was able to get the info specifically from the books. I said something about how I seemed to remember there were, until someone else pointed out politely that it was static electricity that Harry had felt.)
--- End quote ---
Yup, that was me.
As to the above, I don't see a difference between that and what you wrote below.
Same idea, different wording.
--- Quote from: bobtheskull on February 08, 2007, 01:13:17 AM ---Stating "I see what you mean. I disagree though. My own opinion on how this fictional magic would work is like this though." is discussion.
--- End quote ---
Ok, so when does it turn into debate?
That's fine for intial statements, but person A will respond with why their theory is right, and person b will attempt to find flaws to disprove it.
Hence, disucssion becomes debate.
However, I see no difference(except wording) to the examples you posted.
--- Quote from: bobtheskull on February 08, 2007, 01:13:17 AM ---
One is decidedly unfriendly and leads to angry retorts. The other generally doesn't.
[
Using statements such as (no offense intended here Lightsabre) such as "end of story" is a debate tactic used in dismissing the other's argument. It comes across offensively.
--- End quote ---
You keep mentioning this 'end of story' quote I said to you. Once.
And it was, it was a fact, from the book. There could be no argument, cuase there was no grey area. I can accept I might have been a little rude to state it like that, but can we just let it go?
Please?
Ghsdkgb:
--- Quote from: Lightsabre on February 07, 2007, 08:38:28 PM ---Everyone who's posted has seemed to say that discussion is collaborative, and debate is with opposing views.
But I see some issues trying to split these on a board.
FOr instance, if you have a 'discussion' topic, does that mean no one is allowed to disagree? Might make for a very boring thread.
What if somone starts a 'discussion' topic on, say Murphy getting the Sword, and someone else wants to point out the virtues of Thomas getting it. Is that changing it to a debate?
Or if someone wants to debate Murphy/Thomas, does this mean a new thread has to be created specifically for that purpose?
--- End quote ---
Debates can occur withing a discussion without detracting from the discussion as a whole. Another qualifier might be that debates continue the opposing viewpoints for some time, whereas a person in a discussion takes the opposing viewpoint and integrates it into his own, allowing some parts to harmonize while others don't.
bobtheskull:
--- Quote from: Lightsabre on February 08, 2007, 01:29:56 AM ---
--- Quote from: bobtheskull on February 08, 2007, 01:13:17 AM ---
One is decidedly unfriendly and leads to angry retorts. The other generally doesn't.
[
Using statements such as (no offense intended here Lightsabre) such as "end of story" is a debate tactic used in dismissing the other's argument. It comes across offensively.
--- End quote ---
You keep mentioning this 'end of story' quote I said to you. Once.
And it was, it was a fact, from the book. There could be no argument, cuase there was no grey area. I can accept I might have been a little rude to state it like that, but can we just let it go?
Please?
--- End quote ---
I used the phrase here as a specific example. I even said "no offense intended" because I merely wanted to mention the phrase. I wasn't trying to paint you as an ogre for it. And no, you hadn't used it on me in defense of a fact from a book.
There's some real confusion here between discussion and debate, which is why this thread exists.
GnosisRoads:
Are we having a debate or a discussion on this thread? I would say both. We are trying to collaboratively define debates and discussions, but we have a number of disagreements and are arguing our various points on the matter. I think the whole thing is based on a false dichotomy. I agree with Lightsabre.
DragonFire:
--- Quote from: bobtheskull on February 08, 2007, 01:54:39 AM ---
--- Quote from: Lightsabre on February 08, 2007, 01:29:56 AM ---
--- Quote from: bobtheskull on February 08, 2007, 01:13:17 AM ---
One is decidedly unfriendly and leads to angry retorts. The other generally doesn't.
[
Using statements such as (no offense intended here Lightsabre) such as "end of story" is a debate tactic used in dismissing the other's argument. It comes across offensively.
--- End quote ---
You keep mentioning this 'end of story' quote I said to you. Once.
And it was, it was a fact, from the book. There could be no argument, cuase there was no grey area. I can accept I might have been a little rude to state it like that, but can we just let it go?
Please?
--- End quote ---
I used the phrase here as a specific example. I even said "no offense intended" because I merely wanted to mention the phrase. I wasn't trying to paint you as an ogre for it. And no, you hadn't used it on me in defense of a fact from a book.
There's some real confusion here between discussion and debate, which is why this thread exists.
--- End quote ---
I think this is because discussion and debate are very similar.
Basically, I think the real difference is a debate has structure and rules, but discussion doesn't.
We've all been dicussing, not debating.
Debating has definitions, and timed rebuttals and all that.
Discussions don't.
Otherwise, I struggle to find a definition that isn't 'discussion means you can't disagree'.
Bobtheskull, maybe we are approching this wrong.
How do you characterise discussion???
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