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What's the difference between discussion and debate?

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iago:
Spawning off from http://www.jim-butcher.com/bb/index.php/topic,1825.30.html ...


--- Quote from: bobtheskull on February 07, 2007, 02:57:32 AM ---However, I'm not looking to debate. I just want discussion.  I want to talk about what's possible rather than argue about why who has to be wrong and what theory isn't possible.  I came here to talk about the dresdenverse and interesting topics along the lines introduced by the books. I don't want to drive each subject into the ground.  That tends to make people go away.
--- End quote ---

So, I like this idea of providing a means for segregating "casual discussion" from "focused debate"... but in order to do that, I need to establish a policy.  In particular, that policy needs to clearly and unambiguously delineate what constitutes "focused debate" vs. what constitutes "casual discussion".  And I need to do it in such a way that it doesn't require doubling the number of boards -- so mainly I'm thinking this would, at most, establish one new board per category.

So I put the question to y'all.  How do we distinguish the two, and how do we implement something like this in a way least destructive to the existing board dynamic?

Ghsdkgb:
In a discussion, you use the other person's ideas to augment your own.

In a debate, you try to prove the other person wrong.

DragonFire:
Honestly, I'm not sure you can. To me, at least, discussion and debate are the same thing.
I"ve encountered this a lot on here. My style may be overly confrontational, I don't know. I certainly don't try to be, but one of the criticism I find when I disagree with people is they say 'it's all speculation, it might be true, your stifling speculation'.
It seems to me that the demarkation from discussion to debate seems to be when someone disagree's.
How would we enforce that?
I was thinking maybe we should change it from discussion to speculation?
If you are speculating, people don't disagree so much as refine your idea, and when you are debating, someone takes up a contrary position and uses book quotes.
I hope this helps.

Amber:
I don't know... the way people seem to treat the two, discussion is when you agree with me, but debate is when you disagree.  I'm not sure that there's much difference.  And I don't think that there's an intended difference when the poster starts the thread.  I understand the intent of creating another board, but I'm not sure it would help, because threads start one way and move into "debate" as posts pile up.

Guess that isn't much help.  Sorry, Iago.

ashton:
Here's how I view it:

In a discussion, the intent isn't to persuade: it's to collaboratively build. The basic assumption is that everyone's viewpoint is basically valid and interesting and deserves expansion.

In a debate, the intent is to persuade the audience, through rhetoric, argumentation, or what-have-you, to a specific point of view. Usually, multiple points of view are presented by different authors, all of whom are trying either to prove their own point, disprove the other points, or both.

Maybe examples are better.

Discussion:

bobtheskull: I think X.
lightsabre: I think Y.
bobtheskull: That's interesting: that completely changes the nature of Q, though!
lightsabre: Hnh, you're right. But if Q is that way, then that means that X and Y are both really close together.
someone else: I have this theory about N: how does that fit into X, Y and Q?
bobtheskull: Weeeeeell, Y supports it, but not X, unless you also take Q into account.
lightsabre: Hold on, X also supports it even without Q, because check out this neat thing!
bobtheskull: Holy cow, I never even saw that. Did you know about R?
someone else: Wait, Q and R have to do with X? HOLY CRAP, JIM'S A GENIUS.
bobtheskull: Amen.
lightsabre: Amen.
everyone else: Amen. Hummus?
bobtheskull: Dude, awesome hummus.
lightsabre: TOTALLY awesome hummus.
someone else: Wow, what's hummus?
bobtheskull: Chickpeas.
lightsabre: Chickpeas AND olive oil.
someone else: Chickpeas, olive oil, and Angelina Jolie.
everyone else: *drool*

Debate:

bobtheskull: I think X.
lightsabre: I think Y.
bobtheskull: X is clearly right, because of A, B, C and N.
lightsabre: Y is clearly right, because of Q, R, S and T. Besides which, X is invalid on its face: C isn't canon!
bobtheskull: Anyone who's read the books knows that C is canon. X is totally valid, because of A, B and N in addition to C. Furthermore, Y is wrong because of...
someone else: I totally disagree with both of you. P is the only right answer: X is invalid because of C, Y is invalid because of S, and P incorporates the best parts of A, B, N, Q, R /and/ T!
bobtheskull: Okay, point, but, dude, B.
lightsabre: Forget B, check out Q! I still believe fervently that Y is the way to go.
bobtheskull: I disagree, but I see your point.
someone else: I disagree with bobtheskull, and kind of agree with lightsabre, but I still think my P is the best idea.
someone else: Heh, P. Geddit? Pee? HAHA. Er. Anyway, she has a point. All in favor of P?
someone else: I like P, too. I can't believe I wrote that.
someone else: No way, bob's totally sold me on X.
someone else: Eenh, I'm with lightsabre on Y.
someone else: Man, I'm hungry. I could totally go for some hummus.
bobtheskull: I'm in favor of hummus. Well argued, lightsabre.
lightsabre: I third hummus. Back at you, bob.
someone else: Awesome, hummus! Come on, GROUP HUG!
everyone else: *hug* *hummus*

Just Plain Dumb:

bobtheskull: I think X.
lightsabre: I think Y.
bobtheskull: You're an idiot.
lightsabre: Am not. YOU'RE an idiot.
bobtheskull: You're /always/ an idiot! Look at (unrelated thread)! You always do X!
lightsabre: I am not. I NEVER do X! Except that one time, but that was because YOU did X, I was just defending myself!
bobtheskull:OH YEAH, WELL I CAN TALK LOUDER.
lightsabre: YEAH, WELL, I CAN BE MORE VICTIMIZED.
someone else: You know, maybe this argument isn't a good idea.
bobtheskull: SHUT UP I'M REAMING THE IDIOT.
lightsabre: YEAH WELL I'M REAMING UR MOM.
someone else: JESUS, SHUT UP.
bobtheskull: NO, YOU SHUT UP.
lightsabre: NO, YOU.
everyone else: (stabbing selves in eye with fork)
iago, mickeyfinn, ashton: *BANHAMMER*

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