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nthnclls:

--- Quote from: Dale B on June 24, 2010, 01:14:24 PM ---Ummm, the most -likely- suspect for messing with LC to keep if from killing Harry is -Lash-. He dies, she loses a host. And being resident in his head, she was in the most advantageous position to see the issues, and know what he did wrong and how to correct them. I think he would have known if someone of Mab's ilk had crashed through the apartment protections, and the lab protections, fixed his toy, and left, as she could not have reset those protections. They were his, after all. Not hers.
--- End quote ---

If Mab was Molly, she would know Harry's defenses and would have been able to crash through his protections with ease. :P

In addition, how would LASH mess with LC?  She can't actually make Harry do anything, and I highly doubt that she could erase his memory of fixing LC, since if it was that easy then she could just erase all of his negative memories of the Fallen and replace them with something else.



--- Quote ---Actually, all that would do is keep Dresden alive. Cowl was a mortal, and his attack through LC destroyed it's function, and nearly killed Dresden. The nagloshi is a semi-divine being a few levels up from ol Cowl in the brute force department (else Cowl & Co. would have had no real need for the Darkhallow). This was quite likely the reason he didn't bother with the thing; a mortal wizard nearly fried his cortex. Anything stronger would have burned him to ash in the attempt. And shagnasty is most likely stronger than Cowl is.
--- End quote ---

Actually, he could probably have used LC to find Thomas, or the pentacle, and not worried about Shagnasty doing anything to him.  It probably would have been useless due to Shagnasty's magical defenses, but since he was trying other ways of finding him, there was no reason not to use LC.


--- Quote ---Actually, nothing says that Demonreach -is- 'directly under' the Stone Tablet.....or the sacrificial alter, to be more precise. The actual text in SK states that Mab -and Titania- created the place where Harry & Co fight, to settle the issue. Not that it existed all the time, unmoving. Two, they reached it by 'walking up a magical stairway into the sky' from the shore at Chicago. How far out into Lake Superior is that island again? If the area around the altar was templated on Chicago (as dresden commented on), then they would have had to travel a long way to get there. And how do you explain the dual nature of the tablet? Half the year, it is anything -but- a focus dark magic, as it is owned by Summer. The Fae have always been dual natured, as they represent nature itself. So unless you know of a well of light magic, just as deep and powerful as Demonreach, that no one knows about or has the slightest inkling exists, to act as the counterbalance to Demonreach.... Fail
--- End quote ---

As for how long they traveled on the stairs, Harry says that they DID travel a long way to get there.  And just because we haven't seen a well of light magic doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.  No one talked or said anything about Demonreach before Small Favors, and yet it still existed.


--- Quote ---As do the Mothers, as seen in SK. And as we haven't seen Titania in any meaningful way, giving Mab all this is a bit premature. Taking one slice of a whole does not give you a picture of the whole. It's just one slice.
--- End quote ---

The Mothers are a LOT more powerful than Mab and Titania.  And what Titania is does not change what Mab is.  They have to be equal, not exactly the saame.


--- Quote ---Source of power to tap, a mortal soul to seduce and turn, giving them a wizardly source of power to play with. Nothing outside of the Sidhe ordinary there....
--- End quote ---

I vaguely remember that Lea's interest in Molly in GP was extremely geeky foreshadowing. Not sure though.


--- Quote ---About a 16-17 year old punk-goth runaway wizard who gets in over her head and is used to lure Harry to Arctis Tor. For all we know, the fetches were turned by the Black Council, managed to finess Mab into entrusting the Tor to them as she led Winter in such a way that she was bound to leave the Tor in their hands (anything smacking of promise is binding on fae, remember), and they let in Namshiel to do whatever it was he did besides destroying a lot of things. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a time bomb or three in her from that little sojourn to Winter, but so far we have seen no evidence of it.
--- End quote ---

What makes you think that the Black Council has the ability to trick Mab into promising them Arctis Tor?   I think that the very fact that there was a battle even before Harry got there proves that this is not the case.


--- Quote ---Like how many other wizards.....? Molly is far from unique in any of those categories. And maybe more importantly, has so far shown absolutely no predilection for cold based magic. Or the kind of power needed to time travel.
--- End quote ---

We know that she's extremely talented, more so than most wizards.  She's unique in that way.  We don't know what amount of power is needed to time travel.


--- Quote ---And exactly what kind of ascension spell did she use, hmmm? Mab is kinda immortal; Molly isn't. And only a ritual of ascension could have changed that. Or divine action. Also keep in mind that what was known as Faery was around at least as long as humanity was. Who was in charge all that time before DJ MollyC came and pulled an ascension ritual out of her nether regions and decided to be the poster child for the next Stone Cold Bitch(tm)? Nature has always had balance. Can't have Winter without Summer.
--- End quote ---

The same kind of spell that the Erkling used to ascend from human to "kinda immortal"?  And there is nothing saying that winter and summer fae couldn't have been able to survive without some sort of power structure, or that there was even anything but wild fae before the last Ice Age.



--- Quote ---Er, actually, the line is "I am Sidhe. I am Mab." No different in context than I am fae. I am American. No cosmic symbolism there, I fear.... And again. Balance. Without both, one or the other would destroy the very thing that gave them context.
Next?

--- End quote ---

I am AN American would be the correct way to say it iirc.  I am A fae.  You're just leaving out an article.  I might be wrong on that, though, since grammar has never been my strong point...

EDIT:  Oops, messed up the quoting...

Ms Duck:
Hi Dale 
Duck shall address your cunning objections, one by one:
•   Ummm, the most -likely- suspect for messing with LC to keep if from killing Harry is -Lash-. He dies, she loses a host. And being resident in his head, she was in the most advantageous position to see the issues, and know what he did wrong and how to correct them. I think he would have known if someone of Mab's ilk had crashed through the apartment protections, and the lab protections, fixed his toy, and left, as she could not have reset those protections. They were his, after all. Not hers.
•   REPLY: Lash is actually the least likely suspect, after Marcone. If she could mess with his head to that degree, and mess with Bob as well ( remember Bob doesn’t know who messed with it) then there is no reason at all for most of her other deceptions. Second, this is actually the weakest link in my theory; not because Mab has to blast thru his protections and needs to be Molly to get in, but because she does not. Mab has his number, from the debt she bought from Lea, and can walk right thru his magic’s anytime she wants. What she needs to be Molly for is to know about LC in the first place, and to have foreknowledge of events accurate enough to know exactly what moves to make in those scenarios. Also, Mab is the only suspect that could just waltz past Bob without being detected.
•   Actually, nothing says that Demonreach -is- 'directly under' the Stone Tablet.....or the sacrificial alter, to be more precise. The actual text in SK states that Mab -and Titania- created the place where Harry & Co fight, to settle the issue. Not that it existed all the time, unmoving. Two, they reached it by 'walking up a magical stairway into the sky' from the shore at Chicago. How far out into Lake Superior is that island again? If the area around the altar was templated on Chicago (as dresden commented on), then they would have had to travel a long way to get there. And how do you explain the dual nature of the tablet? Half the year, it is anything -but- a focus dark magic, as it is owned by Summer. The Fae have always been dual natured, as they represent nature itself. So unless you know of a well of light magic, just as deep and powerful as Demonreach, that no one knows about or has the slightest inkling exists, to act as the counterbalance to Demonreach.... Fail
•   REPLY: counter fail. I think you are confusing the table, which is the sacrificial altar used by the sidhe in their accession ceremony, and thus a source of true dark power, with the other items ‘winter’s wellspring’ and ‘summers fire’ from proven guilty, which are specific to the natures of the courts. Second, why would the fae choose to put the table there, if they could have put it anywhere? The Equator for an epic battle would have made more sense. They put it over lake Chicago; over a source of dark magic 75,000 years old. That’s right, Demonreach isle has a source of dark magic beneath it over 75,000 years old; and the Isle itself was badly injured by something that happened at the start of the last ice age…
•   Source of power to tap, a mortal soul to seduce and turn, giving them a wizardly source of power to play with. Nothing outside of the Sidhe ordinary there....
•   REPLY: funny, I don’t recall them seducing Ramirez nearly so hard…In fact, the only wizards they have persued have been Maggie, Harry, Elaine, and Molly.
•   About a 16-17 year old punk-goth runaway wizard who gets in over her head and is used to lure Harry to Arctis Tor. For all we know, the fetches were turned by the Black Council, managed to finess Mab into entrusting the Tor to them as she led Winter in such a way that she was bound to leave the Tor in their hands (anything smacking of promise is binding on fae, remember), and they let in Namshiel to do whatever it was he did besides destroying a lot of things. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a time bomb or three in her from that little sojourn to Winter, but so far we have seen no evidence of it.
•   REPLY: all the evidence shows that the BC tried to deal with Mab and got outplanned, out smarted, and just plain outgunned. I consider a far more likely reason for the whole scenario is Mab needed to give herself a good quick kick in the arse, and get the whole thing moving in the right direction.
•   And exactly what kind of ascension spell did she use, hmmm? Mab is kinda immortal; Molly isn't. And only a ritual of ascension could have changed that. Or divine action. Also keep in mind that what was known as Faery was around at least as long as humanity was. Who was in charge all that time before DJ MollyC came and pulled an ascension ritual out of her nether regions and decided to be the poster child for the next Stone Cold Bitch(tm)? Nature has always had balance. Can't have Winter without Summer
•   Nature has not always had balance, very very much the opposite.  And the time I speculate for the beginnings of Mab would be oh…75,000 years ago. Here’s the thing; I don’t believe  that the nature courts have always existed. If they had, the incarnations certainly would not be human. (Behold Queen Mab..the T Rex). I think someone, a wizard, did an ascension ritual on THAT spot 75,000 years ago, starting the ice age, and killing of 90% of the people on earth at that time. Summer and the other queens were added later, to create balance and prevent extinction of all life on earth.
•   Er, actually, the line is "I am Sidhe. I am Mab." No different in context than I am fae. I am American. No cosmic symbolism there, I fear.... And again. Balance. Without both, one or the other would destroy the very thing that gave them context.
•   REPLY: Mab always speaks the exact truth.. as others have pointed out, there is no ‘a or an’ in that sentence. And yes, Summer was added later, to end the ice age Mab accidentally started…

Joefoe:
to add to Duck's theory, just whose suggstion was it for harry to bind Susan to ensure safety so they could have sex, produce Maggie and make Hqarry winter knight.

wildone654:
I don't like the Molly=Mab thing, simply because I don't like the time travel bit.

I think maybe some people just want some things to go together. 

Joefoe:
I personally am ambivelant about it, but there are several things as Duck is pointing out that are big coinidences

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