The Dresden Files > DFRPG Resource Collection
Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh My!: A Dresdenverse Bestiary
Belial666:
Well, a shot with a .600 Overkill bullet penetrates 6 feet into solid oak. The game hunters would shoot more or less center-mass on the elephant and it would go out the other side. Just about any non-supernatural creature will drop after that.
(those kind of guns and rounds were made as emergency backup to stop charging attacks where you didn't have time to aim so 1-hit-kill was essential)
The reason I am contesting Supernatural and Mythic toughness for animals is that this kind of ability is for creatures that can lose up major parts of their own mass or otherwise suffer tremendous harm and keep going.
The way I'd do the big animals would be Inhuman Toughness at most and a stunt to reduce stress from low-weapon-rating attacks (the reverse of lethal weapon that gives bonus damage to unarmored targets). That way they'd be resistant to harm from what animals normally resist but any big weapon would drop them. As is, an elephant could eat a blast from a weapon 7 rocket launcher and survive. It could even take 2-3 hits to take him out if the attacker's skill was only great or so.
In contrast, a supernatural toughness black court vampire should take a weapon 4 armor piercing 2 shot to the torso that would open a fist-sized hole into it and keep going. Animals aren't supposed to do that.
wyvern:
--- Quote from: Belial666 on August 12, 2010, 04:17:51 AM ---Well, a shot with a .600 Overkill bullet penetrates 6 feet into solid oak. The game hunters would shoot more or less center-mass on the elephant and it would go out the other side. Just about any non-supernatural creature will drop after that.
--- End quote ---
Eventually? Probably; at least without serious medical care. Right then and there? Unless you lucked out and hit the heart or the spine, I'd really doubt that. And then the elephant tramples you. The end.
The thing here is that toughness powers for large animals are for things that can take grievous amounts of person-scaled damage and keep going. Which, hey, an elephant *can*. You can take a chunk out of it the size of a guy's arm, and that really won't do more - in the short term - than make it angry.
The one thing I would do as a GM, is say that the toughness stress boxes on things like elephants do represent actual serious injury; they won't clear between scenes, and without medical treatment can get infected and lead to death. Other than that... a glancing hit with a rocket launcher not killing one? Sure, I can totally see that. A dead on hit, on the other hand - no, the elephant can't take that; and it wouldn't take anywhere near as much aim as you'd need to hit heart or brain with an elephant gun, either. I'd probably declare that high explosives satisfy the elephant's catch, too; that sort of damage isn't something raw mass will protect against very well.
Still, if you want big animals to be more fragile - go for it. Won't break the game either way.
Belial666:
But that's the kind of situation that kind of guns were used for; stopping cold a suddenly charging big animal. And they worked...
wyvern:
Hm. Then maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about? This is always possible, especially when I'm trying to derive game-useful information from wikipedia.
Or possibly elephant guns are rather more than weapon: 4?
I dunno. I do know that at least early elephant guns weren't anywhere near the sort of lethality you're describing, but there doesn't seem to be much info on modern ones, at least in the places I've gone looking.
Deadmanwalking:
--- Quote from: Belial666 on August 12, 2010, 04:17:51 AM ---Well, a shot with a .600 Overkill bullet penetrates 6 feet into solid oak. The game hunters would shoot more or less center-mass on the elephant and it would go out the other side. Just about any non-supernatural creature will drop after that.
--- End quote ---
Not really. Rhinos and Grizzly Bears can casually keep coming after that sort of thing (and do). Shooting a Grizzly Bear with a 30-06 is about as likely to stop it as throwing rocks at it. It might die later, but that doesn't help you in the mean time.
Debatably the Stress on such creatures shouldn't heal between scenes...but that's kind of an academic distinction most of the time with mundane critters.
--- Quote from: Belial666 on August 12, 2010, 04:17:51 AM ---The reason I am contesting Supernatural and Mythic toughness for animals is that this kind of ability is for creatures that can lose up major parts of their own mass or otherwise suffer tremendous harm and keep going.
--- End quote ---
Well, then a lot of mundane animals should totally have it. The Grizzly bear Lewis and Clark ran into got shot repeatedly, including through the eye, and still chased them off a cliff. Large animals are tougher than you're giving them credit for.
You'll also note that I don't give it out all willy-nilly. I think the only critters with higher than Inhuman on Toughness are the Elephant and the Orca. Both of whom would seem to warrant it.
--- Quote from: Belial666 on August 12, 2010, 04:17:51 AM ---The way I'd do the big animals would be Inhuman Toughness at most and a stunt to reduce stress from low-weapon-rating attacks (the reverse of lethal weapon that . That way they'd be resistant to harm from what animals normally resist but any big weapon would drop them. As is, an elephant could eat a blast from a weapon 7 rocket launcher and survive. It could even take 2-3 hits to take him out if the attacker's skill was only great or so.
--- End quote ---
Uh? Not really in any actual fight. At Great skill and a single FP that's a one hit kill for the most part. Especially if you consider being ground zero of large explosions like that to satisfy the elephant's Catch (which I probably would).
--- Quote from: Belial666 on August 12, 2010, 04:17:51 AM ---In contrast, a supernatural toughness black court vampire should take a weapon 4 armor piercing 2 shot to the torso that would open a fist-sized hole into it and keep going. Animals aren't supposed to do that.
--- End quote ---
Big enough ones absolutely do. Or take it and survive any way. The big difference between supernatural critters and most mundane animals is that the supernaturals are smart and/or agressive enough to charge the gunman. Most animals will panic and/or run, allowing the gunman several shots. This is actually a general (and important) note on animals: The few that keep coming after being wounded are feared far and wide by hunters, and likely enough to kill you: Wild boars, Grizzly Bears, Cape Buffalo, stuff like that.
Being charged by an Elephant is the sort of thing you should need to burn FP on surviving (say, the 2 or 3 it'd take to kill the critter). Well, unless you do this all the time (and know the aforementioned Catch).
I actually found a youtube video of some elephant hunters. They take some time to set up...and still require four shots to kill the creature. I'll admit they weren't using an Elephant gun, though. Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP_AaKuIkqY
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