The Dresden Files > DFRPG
From how far away can you hit someone with an evocation?
Deadmanwalking:
--- Quote from: neko128 on May 01, 2010, 11:42:56 PM ---I am, actually. The mistake you're making is the "electronic" bit - I specifically excluded electronic elements. Fibre optics are nothing more than pieces of transparent or translucent material that transmit light - like windows. The reason most people consider them high-tech is because the almost exclusive use in the current day and age is digital data transmission - which is done by firing lasers or LED flashes down fibre optic channels, and interpreting the digital data at the far end... But that's the actions of a computer. Fibre optics do nothing but carry light.
Similarly, a lense is nothing more than lump of glass or plastic that reflects light. Again, like a thick or curved window.
To screw up the fibre optics and fisheye lenses, you would have to change the behavior of light, and I have seen no precedent to believe that magic can do that (at least when it isn't intentional).
--- End quote ---
Looking up fiber optics you're quite right.
Also, having looked up fiber optics, biff_dyskolos is also quite right. They behave like mirrors more than lenses, and I would not allow someone to use Evocation through a mirror, so that ruling would stand for fiber optics.
neko128:
You say "through" a mirror. Do you mean you wouldn't let someone cast at someone behind the mirror, or someone who's reflected in it? I wouldn't let someone cast through fibre optics either (for different reasons), but I *would* let someone cast at a reflection.
Rel Fexive:
Bear in mind that if you see someone behind you in a mirror and cast an evocation at them, you just need to point/gesture behind you and you'll (probably) be able to hit them - they could always use a, ah, MIRROR SHOT aspect for a bonus to their defence. But if they were around a corner, and a barrier of some kind blocked the direct route from you to your target, then your spell would hit that barrier. No bending a spell around corners, in other words. You could, I guess, stick your hand around the corner and 'fire' but again, the defender would get to use an aspect like BAD ANGLE or some such to help them.
That's how I'd do it, anyway.
Deadmanwalking:
--- Quote from: neko128 on May 03, 2010, 01:13:36 PM ---You say "through" a mirror. Do you mean you wouldn't let someone cast at someone behind the mirror, or someone who's reflected in it? I wouldn't let someone cast through fibre optics either (for different reasons), but I *would* let someone cast at a reflection.
--- End quote ---
I meant I wouldn't let someone cast it directly at a reflection and let it effect the person whose reflection it is.
Something like what Rel Fexive is talking about I'd allow, though.
neko128:
I guess my concern is, to lay it out, the difference in definition of "Line of Sight". The rules say you can only target things that you see without "scrying or other effects", but the reasoning it gives is the problem of concentration, not necessarily reach.
A lot of the comments here feel like the assumption is that any evocation must be sourcing from the Wizard in question, but I see no reason to assume that this is true. Harry himself focuses on effects that focus on him and either shield him or radiate out (blasts of fire and air being popular ones), but there are other examples where this isn't true. The rules use an example (page 253, I think?) where someone causes strong winds to rise in the area, but the winds are independent of the wizard (they're near him, but not radiating from or directed towards him), and in fact it's implied that their effect is not limited by LOS to the wizard either - that the effect is an area, obstacles notwithstanding.
Similarly, under the discussion of elements and air vs. earth for calling lightning, it talks about summoning lightning down from the sky to hit a target. The wizard is the source of the magic, but neither the source nor target of the effect.
And the last example I'll throw out is from Storm Front. In Chapter 22, Harry causes (click to show/hide)a massive wind gust to form underneath the elevator, forcing it up and crushing the scorpion construct. It could have been framed as a spirit spell just pushing the elevator up, but instead it was framed as wind - and the source, cause, and effect all happened outside his vision.
I'm just afraid people are getting too attached to "direct vision" as the definition of effect for evocation, because we have multiple examples - in the books and rules - where it isn't the standard used to define "Line of Sight"... And the reasoning written behind the LoS comment doesn't mention vision at all.
So to get back to the thread...
--- Quote from: Rel Fexive on May 03, 2010, 02:01:50 PM ---...you just need to point/gesture behind you and you'll (probably) be able to hit them - they could always use a, ah, MIRROR SHOT aspect for a bonus to their defence...
--- End quote ---
This is exactly my point. Yes, if you're aiming in a mirror to "point and shoot", you're effectively firing a gun, and it'd be appropriate. But am I simply missing the requirement to "aim" in this sense? It may make sense based on the character concept, but from my reading of the rules it isn't appropriate to all Evocation, or even *much* Evocation. The rules say the discipline roll also counts as your attack roll (that they can defend against), but it doesn't say it's literally a ranged attack - and that interpretation is directly contradicted by the discussion slightly further down of, for example, summoning a lightning bolt from the sky. Sure, it's dodgeable, and if not dodged the damage is resistible, but it's not being aimed in the way you're talking. It's being guided, and that's different. Even if my PC were targeting the lightning bolt in a mirror, I wouldn't be able to justify a defensive aspect like that. Now, an "insulated" aspect because they were in a car (rubber tires FTW!) or a "grounded" aspect because they're standing in a puddle of water or clutching a metal fire escape...
Anyway, sorry, rant done. :)
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