The Dresden Files > DFRPG
Lawbreakers: Do We Need Them?
TheMouse:
--- Quote from: Korwin on April 28, 2010, 07:57:20 PM ---An aspect would do the same. First the aspect get compelled, then the aspect invoked to better kill.
--- End quote ---
They both work in tandem. Remember, giving up the 2 refresh gives you a blanket +2 to break the law yet another time without spending fate points. The Aspect gives you fate points for killing, and it lets you spend them to be even more capable. Casual killing accrues fate points with a bonus if you're taking out helpless characters, and those points can go a ways toward making you really damned dangerous against people who can defend themselves.
--- Quote from: Korwin on April 28, 2010, 07:57:20 PM ---Or the GM concedes...
--- End quote ---
Which, again, you need to accept.
Deadmanwalking:
--- Quote from: Nudge on April 28, 2010, 08:51:02 PM ---I ask because I remember reading the creation and seeing Harry get Lawbreaker and thinking "Cool concept, but very few players are going to elect to hurt their character strength out of the gate like that when they can hurt their characters in other, more interesting ways with Aspects that DON'T cost them 1 refresh for no real benefit at all".
I love Lawbreaker as a rule of the universe. I expect it will encourage players to avoid the easy-but-destructive paths and PCs to behave more...human. I don't like the cost at creation, so I expect if someone ACTUALLY expresses interest in playing a character like Harry (not talking about a casual killer) that I'll not dock their refresh...unless they cross that line again once play begins. To me that seems like a meta-game mechanic to encourage players to have "flawed" characters rather than a departure from the core concept. Am I off-base?
--- End quote ---
This is why I like my own House Rule...no inconsistency (since the benefits apply to everyone), but a PC who has it won't feel they wasted their point of Refresh.
iago:
--- Quote from: Nudge on April 28, 2010, 08:51:02 PM ---Does this apply to all variations, or just the ones that remove penalties for being a Lawbreaker?
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Well... Specifically the erosion of your refresh, pushing you closer to being a monster that follows the dictates of its nature, is what makes the Lawbreaker stunts work in a way that maximally reinforces the themes and setting details that need reinforcing. The fact that they provide benefits for breaking that law again is the side-effect, not the main point.
Eroding refresh constrains fate point supply which gives the "darkened" aspects more teeth because it's harder to resist their compels, and you get even more juice when you give in, getting the bonuses from the ability beyond just the fate point.
To deconstruct this, I'd say alternative implementations that still have a goal of keeping things as true to the setting as possible should try to achieve these aims:
- Gradually turn the character into more of a monster (the aspect alteration effect in the current implementation does this, as does the erosion of refresh)
- Increase the power of the character in ways that enforce the breaking of the law in question (the bonuses provided by the Lawbreaker abilities achieve this)
One alternative I could see would be, maybe, to treat the Lawbreaker benefit like a point of Refinement that the character must take (but which the GM decides how is spent, maybe). Or imposing the acquisition of some kind of Sponsored Magic: by breaking the Law in question, you've "let in" something dark and malevolent that's starting to express itself through that power -- if you went that route, you'd get to model the side-effects through the sponsor debt mechanic instead. Both methods would require the "darkened aspect" thing to happen at some point. So that's where my brain goes.
But the Lawbreaker implementation that exists felt like the right fit based on what we learned. ;)
Korwin:
When I have time I'll try to min/max the bonus from lawbreaker.
DFRPG hasnt many boni to increase the range.
If nobody does the work before me, I'll post an Focused Practioner Mindcontroller.
--- Quote from: Deadmanwalking on April 28, 2010, 07:54:52 PM ---Uh, not to disagree with the possibility of using Aspects, but, well, I really think my solution helps:
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I'm still listing pro and contras...
--- Quote ---As for the Free Will thing, bear in mind that by the official rules every three times you break a Law you need to change an Aspect to reflect that Broken Law.
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thats for real? So Cowl and Co all have only lawbreaker aspects?
Korwin:
--- Quote from: TheMouse on April 28, 2010, 08:52:02 PM ---They both work in tandem. Remember, giving up the 2 refresh gives you a blanket +2 to break the law yet another time without spending fate points. The Aspect gives you fate points for killing, and it lets you spend them to be even more capable. Casual killing accrues fate points with a bonus if you're taking out helpless characters, and those points can go a ways toward making you really damned dangerous against people who can defend themselves.
--- End quote ---
At this Point I'm not so shure if we don't get a little to much boni here...
--- Quote ---Which, again, you need to accept.
--- End quote ---
I was thinking, the GM tells you. "Looks like you blasted that human per accident into the afterlife. Take the Lawbreaker stunt."
Where you thinking the same?
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