The Dresden Files > DFRPG
At Evocation speeds and methods
KOFFEYKID:
--- Quote from: Deadmanwalking on April 27, 2010, 05:02:48 PM ---Yeah, Thaumaturgy isn't an Element, so there's no real way to get power bonuses to it. And I'd personally say that Complexity does for Thaumaturgy-as-Evocation exactly what it does for other Thaumaturgy...allow higher Complexity effects without prep-work or Aspects. Heck, that's even more useful if you're doing it as Evocation.
Yes, this does mean that the Mental Stress may get a little high from exceeding your Conviction from doing this too much (especially if you're good at the variety of Thaumaturgy you're using and going all out), but that seems fairly appropriate. On the other hand, since there are no indications of a base cost ala Evocation, it won't be likely to be as bad as all that.
--- End quote ---
except that the book gives you examples that say you can use your sponsored magic as an element in and of it self, in addition to supercharging an element.
--- Quote from: page 290, Under Seelie Magic ---In addition, Summer magic may be used as an element for evocation, allowing evocation spell effects that encourage wildness, birth, growth, renewal, and warmth.
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--- Quote from: page 291, Under Un-Seelie Magic ---In addition, Winter magic may be used as an element for evocation, allowing evocation spell effects that encourage wildness, decay, slumber, death, and cold.
--- End quote ---
Deadmanwalking:
--- Quote from: luminos on April 27, 2010, 05:06:18 PM ---So you would be okay with allowing an unlimited number of these thaumaturgy at evocation speed spells that are below conviction never causing stress?
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Absolutely. 5 shift (or lower) Thaumaturgy is nice and all, but except for duration, in combat it's usually less useful than, say, 6 shift Evocation (available casually with Focus items and specialties). Warding is a notable exception, but 5 shift Wards, while cool, are hardly unbeatable.
--- Quote from: KOFFEYKID on April 27, 2010, 05:13:28 PM ---except that the book gives you examples that say you can use your sponsored magic as an element in and of it self, in addition to supercharging an element.
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True, but it specifically refers to "an Element for Evocation" so any bonuses to the Sponsored Magic Element are going to be explicitly Evocation only bonuses. Thaumaturgy cast via Evocation's methods still strikes me as a very different thing from Evocation itself.
luminos:
--- Quote from: Deadmanwalking on April 27, 2010, 05:17:15 PM ---Absolutely. 5 shift (or lower) Thaumaturgy is nice and all, but except for duration, in combat it's usually less useful than, say, 6 shift Evocation (available casually with Focus items and specialties). Warding is a notable exception, but 5 shift Wards, while cool, are hardly unbeatable.
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5 shift wards are like super versions of 5 shift blocks. They let you stop incoming damage, and reflect it back. And yet an evocation speed ward is cheaper and easier than an evocation block?
How about thaumaturgic veils at evocation speed? You can cast low grade veils that cover a huge area, but if you make a personal veil its more expensive?
What about direct attacks using thaumaturgic effects, like a super-low grade version of the exploding heart spell, and at evocation speeds? Its okay to have an infinite number of free casts of these?
Deadmanwalking:
Sure. As Sponsored Magic, so your sponsor better approve of what you're doing. And which will likely give you one of the effects you just listed at most (Hellfire, Seelie and Unseelie Magic can grant attacks but not either of the other effects you mention, while Soulfire can grant it all...but only if God wills it...and costs extra over mosr Sponsored Magic anyway). And if you keep doing it again and again I'd say you probably start racking up some serious debt to your sponsor, which you'll need to pay off eventually.
Sponsored Magic is potent and deadly, but there are definite long term costs.
Victim:
It's not really Evocation methods if you're dodging the mental stress that's part of the evocation method. It would just be at evocation speed.
--- Quote --- Warding is a notable exception, but 5 shift Wards, while cool, are hardly unbeatable.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, they don't have to be unbeatable. They just have to be lots better than a normal block. Since they don't spend shifts for duration - pretty essential IMO if you want to do anything besides maintain the shield - a 5 power Ward is more equivalent to 7 power block that gets 2 extra exchanges. Plus it comes with the reflecting bonus. And it shouldn't take stress to do it?
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