On shot Concession

[Nudge]

I'm trying to wrap my head around the very different - but very awesome - RPG mechanics.

Let's say a PC wanted to knock out a doorman so the PCs can enter the hotel without raising an alarm that some of the group is, you know, monstrous.

In most games, this is a full blown combat that doesn't make sense.
In a lot of more modern indie games, this is a simple contest rather than a conflict.

If I'm understanding the DFRPG, this is intended to be run like this:

 (I know I can vary, but I'm trying to understand how the authors would run it first)
Someone strolls up to the doorman.  The Doorman is completely untrained and bland (Mediocre +0) in terms of Fists and Endurance.
PC takes action against doorman.  The doorman (GM) isn't all that dedicated to stopping this but certainly doesn't want to be Taken Out without be able to name the terms.
The first opportunity for the doorman to offer a concession is after taking a moderate consequence.  This means the hit needs 4 shifts (the minimum amount to require a moderate consequence).  As soon as the consequence is dealt, the GM can offer the concession (knock out and dragged to safety) or continue the conflict.

Am I right?

The same margin exists if the PC attempts a Bribe or an Intimidation conflict, correct?

[iago]

Your bland doorman has a stress track of length 2. A mild consequence brings a hit down by 2; a moderate brings it down by 4.  In order to get a taken out result, you need to land a blow that inflicts more stress than the stress track can handle. Without consequences reducing the hit, and no roll-up factor due to boxes on the track previously being marked off, that's 3.

Now, this dude's a doorman, so as the GM I'd probably run this as "if a blow is going to inflict any consequence at all, even a mild one, I'll just offer the concession of being knocked out".  So, a hit that inflicts 3 stress would do that.

But let's say I'm buying your proposition -- the "player" (the GM) here doesn't want this character to have a lasting issue, which starts at moderate consequences since you can "shake off" a mild with a scene or so of rest. In that case we're looking at a blow that needs to land 5 stress -- 5 because if you reduce that by a mild (2), you're at 3, which is still beyond the end of this guy's stress track; he'd have to take a moderate to reduce that to a number that lands on the stress track.

Rolls will come into this, but let's "take zero" and assume everyone performs right at their skill level. With him having Mediocre Fists, if your PC has at least Good Fists the margin's gonna be 3 on average, which is enough to inflict a mild consequence; if moderate is what's required in the GM's mind to force a concession, then your PC's gonna need Superb Fists.

But...

Your PC might have an applicable stunt, boosting the effective Fists rating here.

Or a fate point and an applicable aspect.

Or he's taken the previous action to roll Stealth to set up a temporary aspect on the target, "I've Got The Drop On Him" which he'll be able to tag (at no expense) when he swings his Fists.

Or maybe you're playing it loose and clear enough that this guy's really just a difficulty number, not a full blown character where you'll need to engage the stress track at all -- just set the difficulty at something reasonable to get past the "obstacle".

Or maybe you're playing it loose and clear enough that this guy will go down with any solid rationale, and spending that tag on the temporary aspect you got with Stealth in a "compel for effect" way is enough to say "How about he just folds long enough for me to get past him and inside with a couple minutes to spare?"

[Sebastian]

In ordinary reality, knocking people unconcious is time consuming, difficult and quite dangerous.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TapOnTheHead

[SaintAndSinner]

In ordinary reality, knocking people unconcious is time consuming, difficult and quite dangerous.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TapOnTheHead

Man!  I'm glad I don't live there   

[Nudge]

Your bland doorman has a stress track of length 2. A mild consequence brings a hit down by 2; a moderate brings it down by 4.  In order to get a taken out result, you need to land a blow that inflicts more stress than the stress track can handle. Without consequences reducing the hit, and no roll-up factor due to boxes on the track previously being marked off, that's 3.

Yeah, my math was off.  

Now, this dude's a doorman, so as the GM I'd probably run this as "if a blow is going to inflict any consequence at all, even a mild one, I'll just offer the concession of being knocked out".  So, a hit that inflicts 3 stress would do that.

I was going off of YS206, which _I thought_ said that you needed to have a moderate or worse consequence from the conflict before you could concede.  Now that I'm rereading it I see it says that such a consequence should come _about_ from conceding.  This makes a huge difference.

Or maybe you're playing it loose and clear enough that this guy's really just a difficulty number, not a full blown character where you'll need to engage the stress track at all -- just set the difficulty at something reasonable to get past the "obstacle".

I do like the idea of even minions being potential problems...this example shows that a non-violent solution is likely to have more fallback plans if they fail than the violent one does.   I prefer to try and train my players through experience

Or maybe you're playing it loose and clear enough that this guy will go down with any solid rationale, and spending that tag on the temporary aspect you got with Stealth in a "compel for effect" way is enough to say "How about he just folds long enough for me to get past him and inside with a couple minutes to spare?"

Ooo....compelling an aspect for effect was something I didn't consider!  That's one of those subtleties I was hoping would be pointed out.

Overall I prefer the concession, but compelling an inflicted aspect is a handy technique to remember.

So...PC makes an attack of some sort and does enough to inflict a consequence (for the doorman, 3+ shifts).  Seeing I'm outclassed and that the player didn't flub, I concede to a dramatically appropriate take out and the story moves on.  

[iago]

Bingo.