The Dresden Files > DFRPG
The First Law Question.
Deadmanwalking:
--- Quote from: Moriden on April 30, 2010, 04:20:32 PM ---You are definitely correct. the wording of the law itself would say that hes clean, but everything else written about the law contradicts that. so i guess it comes down to what exactly is The seventh law, is it "Never Seek Knowledge and Power from Beyond the Outer Gates." or is it as the detailed description would lead us to believe, "Do not seek knowledge or power about the outer gates or the beings beyond them. "
--- End quote ---
As has been mentioned a few times, including by iago, I'd say that the acual Law is what you need to break to get Lawbreaker, while the description is what the Wardens will punish you for. Well, unless you're the Gatekeeper.
Ala Alba:
In Dead Beat, Harry states the law as "Thou Shalt Not Open the Outer Gates".
IMO, that is the version of the law given by Merlin(presumably), and presumably the part that stains your soul/mind/magic/whatever.
If that's the case, you can learn anything you want ABOUT the Outsiders, you just can't Open the Outer Gates to interact with them. Of course, I'm sure that the WC feels that it's unnecessary for anyone besides the Gatekeeper to know any about the Outsiders, or that it's unlikely that anyone would have a good reason to learn about them. Thus the stigma on learning anything at all about Outsiders, which might have made it unofficially part of the law as far as the Wardens and execution are concerned.
Moriden:
You could be correct deadmanwalking. I tend to come down on favoring the elaboration on what the law actually is over the one sentence description of what the law is at the top[ much like laws in real life have elaborate clarifications on how they actually function that are much more detailed then the original wording of the laws], and that elaboration clearly says that even researching into the matters is a violation. even if you then go further and demand that you need to use magic with that knowledge to break the law the gatekeeper still qualify's. if you want to interpret that law as "dont draw power from beyond the gates, or open the gates, or bring forth beings from beyond" then yes i would agree that he hasn't broken that law. Personally since i dont place any moral judgements on the laws, and if i was going to give the gatekeeper aspects they would all be heavily influenced by his job as gatekeeper there is no real difference to him haveing the stunt or not other then the additional refresh cost.
Nudge:
--- Quote from: Ala Alba on April 30, 2010, 05:01:36 PM ---If that's the case, you can learn anything you want ABOUT the Outsiders, you just can't Open the Outer Gates to interact with them. Of course, I'm sure that the WC feels that it's unnecessary for anyone besides the Gatekeeper to know any about the Outsiders, or that it's unlikely that anyone would have a good reason to learn about them. Thus the stigma on learning anything at all about Outsiders, which might have made it unofficially part of the law as far as the Wardens and execution are concerned.
--- End quote ---
Remember: Knowledge is power. At what point do you have enough grains of sand to have a pile? When is your knowledge of the Beyond corrupting? Best to play it safe because some things may not be easy to identify a hard line on.
Ala Alba:
--- Quote from: Nudge on April 30, 2010, 08:16:29 PM ---Remember: Knowledge is power. At what point do you have enough grains of sand to have a pile? When is your knowledge of the Beyond corrupting? Best to play it safe because some things may not be easy to identify a hard line on.
--- End quote ---
I disagree, because the knowledge on its own shouldn't ever be corrupting, only acting on it. Or do you feel that having knowledge of how to kill someone with magic(or invade someone's mind, or transform another, etc) is corrupting also? I'll admit that having the knowledge may make it more tempting, and it certainly might make you look bad(for example, Harry's nervousness in Storm Front when asked to research Sell's killing magic stems from this), but it doesn't have any corrupting effects as such, nor does it actually break a law(it only makes you a suspect).
Yes, knowledge is power, but that power goes both ways. Knowing how to, say, rip someone's life out of them with magic, might equal the power to defend yourself against such an attack as well.
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