The Dresden Files > DFRPG
Some Thaumaturgical Questions
Biff Dyskolos:
--- Quote ---Binding
Binding is a full conflict.
We need (+4 for lucky dice, +4 for stress boxes, +20 for all conditions [inkluding extreme condition], +5 to extend the duration of afternoon to a month) a +33 complexity ritual.
--- End quote ---
I think +4 for stress boxes is wrong. If the target has for stress boxes you need +10 (4+3+2+1) shifts to fill up that stress track.
The +20 for all [consequences] is correct but then you also need 1 extra shift to take them out.
See the description of Victor Sells’ Heart-Exploding Spell on YS:301
Korwin:
That was actually one of my questions.
Why do I need to fill up all of the stress boxes?
As I see it, I only need to go over the stress box.
If someone shoots you for 5 damage, you have no more consequences to take and have (theoretically) no stress boxes (of 4) filled you are still taken out...
iago:
--- Quote from: biff_dyskolos on April 16, 2010, 06:06:57 PM ---I think +4 for stress boxes is wrong. If the target has for stress boxes you need +10 (4+3+2+1) shifts to fill up that stress track.
--- End quote ---
These aren't four separate hits, Biff. This is a single strike that needs to generate a total amount of stress that exceeds the length of the stress track even after consequences, protection, thresholds, and other considerations are factored in, thus forcing a taken out result. In other words, if after all that stuff is subtracted and you still have an amount of stress greater than the highest numbered box on the stress track, the target has to be taken out -- there's no other option. It never even lands on the stress track.
Biff Dyskolos:
--- Quote from: iago on April 16, 2010, 06:57:44 PM ---These aren't four separate hits...
--- End quote ---
I was not suggesting that there were multiple hits involved. But unless I am reading things wrong the spell is "equivalent to winning a conflict in one roll." And the only example of this (I think) is Victor's Heart-Exploding spell which calculates stress baxes as I suggested.
Create Lasting Changes in People and Things (YS:263)
"Inflicting a permanent, transformative change on someone is perhaps the most complicated spell of this type. Essentially, it is equivalent to winning a conflict in one roll."
Binding (YS:273)
"...this is considered a fully transformative effect and therefore requires enough shifts to take out the demon as if it were a full conflict."
Victor Sells’ Heart-Exploding Spell
"... a 32-stress attack does the trick—an extreme, severe, moderate, and mild consequence for a total of 20 shifts, plus 10 shifts to fill up a strong physical stress track (4+3+2+1) plus two more shifts for good measure to ensure a 'taken out' result."
iago:
Huh. Time for Lenny again.
EDIT: Keep in mind, the general target number may still be right. We're only talking about a difference of 5 shifts here -- 5 being one higher than the highest box on a 4-length stress track. But if the spell lost the 4+3+2+1 rationale, you're still looking at the potential of the target being warded, having some sort of supernaturally extended stress track, or other things, so I still think something that aims in the mid-30s "just to be sure" has merit. But I've lit up the bat-signal.
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