The Dresden Files > DFRPG Resource Collection
Harry's Stats plus Assorted Other Stat Revisions (Small Favor through Cold Days)
Deadmanwalking:
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on January 13, 2013, 05:38:00 AM ---Both of the "look exactly like somebody" Powers do that. So the inference that looking exactly like somebody ought to include a +4 disguise bonus seems a reasonable inference to me.
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That's because True Shapeshifting is a big block of other shapeshifting powers all balled together, not necessarily because it's the only way to achieve that effect.
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on January 13, 2013, 05:38:00 AM ---Attacks can't inflict consequences. People take consequences in order to avoid being taken out by attacks.
When you attack, you declare what you want to happen to your victim and if they aren't willing able to spend enough stress/consequences to stop your attack then that thing happens.
Thaumaturgy spells that calculate their complexity by the conflict method don't work like that. If you want to inflict a mild-consequence-level injury to me, I can't stop you by taking a consequence other than the one you want.
Thaumaturgy is its own thing, about halfway between an attack and a consequential contest.
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True enough for spells that inflict consequences. Still, I'm pretty convinced that's not the way it works on this kind of thing. In fact, specifically now that I consider why I've always felt this way, I think this because of the following conversation I had with the folks at Evil Hat, where I discuss doing precisely this (the voluntary version, anyway). I know you don't care about that, but just in case the others reading do...
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on January 13, 2013, 05:38:00 AM ---They don't break any rules. They have their own rules. That's my reading, any-hoo.
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That's far from clear.
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on January 13, 2013, 05:38:00 AM ---Not necessarily 32. And I'd charge extra for take-out results that exceed normal limitations.
But you're saying that turning somebody into a dog and giving them a heart attack should have the same complexity. So why should blowing someone's heart up and giving them a heart attack have different complexities?
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I'm saying that a Wizard examining a magical crime scene can tell how much power would be needed to do X, at least roughly. You might be able to explode a heart with less, but it'd look significantly different than that version.
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on January 13, 2013, 05:38:00 AM ---Not what I meant. I meant the issue is that supposedly-impressive magic can be performed for fun by extremely weak spellcasters.
They talk about how difficulty it is to get the biology right when transforming people in the books. Why would you let people ignore all that difficulty?
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I wouldn't. That's what Compels are for, and I'd very seriously compel them not to even try that as it's too dangerous. That said, it's not actually magical difficulty, it's a difficulty in having a precise enough understanding of biology. I.e. a high Scholarship score. Hell, the Alphas learn to do it after (it's implied) only a few months of training with no grounding in magical ability whatsoever. And do it pretty much perfectly and at-will.
Deadmanwalking:
--- Quote from: Jebm on January 13, 2013, 05:40:27 AM ---I could have sworn Luccio had a blasting rod in Small Favor, right after Micheal kills the last of the Hobs
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--- Quote from: Mrmdubois on January 13, 2013, 06:05:18 AM ---She has a small, slender staff. It's in Dead Beat too.
I don't think there's really been any indication of what bonuses it might give though.
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This. The bonuses are speculative, and it's apparently 5 feet long (according to Small Favor). I'd call that a staff more than a rod.
Sanctaphrax:
--- Quote from: Deadmanwalking on January 13, 2013, 06:44:14 AM ---
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on January 13, 2013, 05:38:00 AM ---And my second explanation makes just as much sense. As does the meta explanation that he didn't know how many Consequences those people had and just assumed the worst, an assumption confirmed by his later research.
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I don't think I said that. Quote tag error?
--- Quote from: Deadmanwalking on January 13, 2013, 06:44:14 AM ---I'm saying that a Wizard examining a magical crime scene can tell how much power would be needed to do X, at least roughly. You might be able to explode a heart with less, but it'd look significantly different than that version.
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That's reasonable, I suppose.
--- Quote from: Deadmanwalking on January 13, 2013, 06:44:14 AM ---I wouldn't. That's what Compels are for, and I'd very seriously compel them not to even try that as it's too dangerous. That said, it's not actually magical difficulty, it's a difficulty in having a precise enough understanding of biology. I.e. a high Scholarship score. Hell, the Alphas learn to do it after (it's implied) only a few months of training with no grounding in magical ability whatsoever. And do it pretty much perfectly and at-will.
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The Alphas spent months training to learn one spell with an expert as a teacher. That's quite a lot of effort for 5 complexity.
Non-magical difficulty of a magical spell is generally represented with (mundane-skill-based) Declarations.
If you find yourself using Compels to block a usage of the rules, that usage is probably bad. Compels are supposed to come from Aspects, but your proposed Compels don't.
Deadmanwalking:
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on January 13, 2013, 07:15:27 AM ---I don't think I said that. Quote tag error?
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I think you're right, but it's on your end, check your previous post.
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on January 13, 2013, 07:15:27 AM ---That's reasonable, I suppose.
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Thanks. :)
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on January 13, 2013, 07:15:27 AM ---The Alphas spent months training to learn one spell with an expert as a teacher. That's quite a lot of effort for 5 complexity.
Non-magical difficulty of a magical spell is generally represented with (mundane-skill-based) Declarations.
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Sure...but this appears to be just a matter of mundane skill, and of merely having it, not necessarily using it successfully. There's not really a mechanic for that in-game...it's sorta a different thing from the normal way things work. All biomancy (and pretty much biomancy specifically) is, per Harry's description.
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on January 13, 2013, 07:15:27 AM ---If you find yourself using Compels to block a usage of the rules, that usage is probably bad. Compels are supposed to come from Aspects, but your proposed Compels don't.
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I'd allow it if they forsook the Compel.
And using any 'Wizard' type Aspect to compel not breaking the Laws or doing reckless things with magic is pretty legitimate. Ditto compelling anyone with any High Concept involving being something less than a Wizard doing just about anything complex with magic ('You're only a Sorcerer, Wizards are scared of that, are you sure you're ready?'). And if your High Concept doesn't include either of those...it probably doesn't include spellcasting, does it? I guess if you had it anyway I wouldn't compel you...but that seems unlikely.
Sanctaphrax:
--- Quote from: Deadmanwalking on January 13, 2013, 07:33:09 AM ---I think you're right, but it's on your end, check your previous post.
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You're right. Fixed.
I seem to be making a lot of minor errors at the moment, I just posted a Power without a Refresh cost.
--- Quote from: Deadmanwalking on January 13, 2013, 07:33:09 AM ---Sure...but this appears to be just a matter of mundane skill, and of merely having it, not necessarily using it successfully. There's not really a mechanic for that in-game...it's sorta a different thing from the normal way things work. All biomancy (and pretty much biomancy specifically) is, per Harry's description.
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That's normal for Thaumaturgy. Conjuration has almost exactly the same issue. I don't see much reason to make special rules.
--- Quote from: Deadmanwalking on January 13, 2013, 07:33:09 AM ---I'd allow it if they forsook the Compel.
And using any 'Wizard' type Aspect to compel not breaking the Laws or doing reckless things with magic is pretty legitimate. Ditto compelling anyone with any High Concept involving being something less than a Wizard doing just about anything complex with magic ('You're only a Sorcerer, Wizards are scared of that, are you sure you're ready?'). And if your High Concept doesn't include either of those...it probably doesn't include spellcasting, does it? I guess if you had it anyway I wouldn't compel you...but that seems unlikely.
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You're still deciding on a Compel without even seeing the character's Aspects. That ain't good, it's like deciding on the conclusion of your research before finishing the experiment.
Also, papering over problems with Compels remains unwise regardless.
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