The Dresden Files > DFRPG

Game Balance and the Laws

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iago:

--- Quote from: svb1972 on February 09, 2010, 05:14:48 PM ---Thaumaturgy to slowly boil someone's blood.  Strong link, should be fairly low power and it's WAY less flashy than ripping their heart out.

--- End quote ---

Less flashy, yes, but it's not low power. Taking a life is not easy, but it's always possible for those willing to put in the effort.

Ancalagon:

--- Quote ---but I'm curious if the power level of, say, Evocation is in part dependent on the fact that you're not allowed to kill people.
--- End quote ---

Hello

This is a bit of a tangent, but I feel it's an important question on the "feel" of the system.

In some systems (let's say, many editions of D&D for example), some attacks are too weak to kill a foe, period.  For example, if you threw a dagger, and you're not particularly good at it, at a tough dwarven warrior, this will not kill him, period.  You may hurt him, you will certainly anger him, but he has too many hp, that even with a critical hit, he won't die from it.

In some other systems - and in real life! - even a somewhat weak attack has the potential to kill.  There was a court case in Ottawa a few years back where someone sucker punched someone else, and the single blow ruptured a blood vessel in the victim's brain, and he died on the spot.  That is perhaps an extreme example, but say if I shot at someone with a weak gun, like say a .22, I would still be charged with attempted murder - even though it' s a "weak bullet", it can still kill.   In warhammer frpg 2nd ed, each attack has the potential of having its damage "explode", so an arrow from a puny goblin has a small, but not negligible, chance of slaying a mighty armored knight. 

This is a pretty important question.  If you do it D&D style, the PCs can feel more heroic... but sometimes to the point where it is very plot disruptive.  It can lead to "so what the bad guy is pointing his gun at me and telling me to freeze, I can take the damage!" kind of thinking.   If you use a more realistic system, it can lead to more realistic roleplaying - if someone is shooting at you, it's *bad*, no matter how tough you are.  On the other hand, the adventure can be derailed by an important NPC (or PC) being killed by a rock thrown by some puny goblin punk.

So... how does this work in Fate 3.0?   To get back to the topic at hand, if we are closer to option two, it means that you can't really ever throw aggressive evocations (say, like beams of fire) at other humans because you risk killing them - in other words, you can't use it to soften them up - not without risking breaking the laws of magic.

iago:

--- Quote from: Ancalagon on February 09, 2010, 07:05:53 PM ---So... how does this work in Fate 3.0?   To get back to the topic at hand, if we are closer to option two, it means that you can't really ever throw aggressive evocations (say, like beams of fire) at other humans because you risk killing them - in other words, you can't use it to soften them up - not without risking breaking the laws of magic.

--- End quote ---

In Fate 3.0 is a broad topic, since that encompasses both SOTC (where the answer would be "not much risk of killing") and DFRPG (where the answer would be "solid risk of serious injury if not death").  SOTC doesn't do bonuses for weapons (weapons are just color there), and has long stress tracks.  DFRPG has shorter stress tracks and bonuses (sometimes big bonuses) for stress on a successful hit, which can quickly turn into consequences or even a taken out result (which might include death).

I'd say you gotta be careful with those evocations for sure. :)

Ancalagon:
Thank you!

I had noted the differences in stress track length between SotC and character sheets posted for Dresden Files characters, but I had attributed that to me not understanding the system.

I imagine that this would be very easy for the GM to adjust to his preference. 

TheMouse:
Just mathematically, let's consider two characters with equal skill fighting each other. The bonuses don't matter, because one's offensive bonus is equal to the defensive bonus of the other. Assume equally effective investment in Stunts as well.

The dice can produce a maximum of +4 and a minimum of -4. If the attacker gets max and the defender gets min, that's a range of 8. This exceeds the base stress track, even if using so minor of a weapon that it grants no bonus. That means that such a hit goes to Consequences and leaves the character even more vulnerable to future hits.

Setting up a sucker punch might be a maneuver with a free tag. In that case, it adds 2 to the above example. That's 5 beyond the base stress track. I don't know which stress reduction model DFRPG is using for Consequences, but using the normal 2/4/6 structure that seems common among FATE hacks, that means a serious Consequence and the track almost full. That's bad.

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