McAnally's (The Community Pub) > Author Craft
Writing from a different gender perspective
Aludra:
--- Quote from: Gritti on October 15, 2009, 03:52:16 PM ---It seemed to be before you entered it. I just mean about the Robert Jordan women thing. You know fan vs. antifan....nevermind.
--- End quote ---
I get what you meant.
Yeah I am passionate about things I like, and I don't like it when people refuse to *try* something before giving it a critical comment. Just in general.
So let me read your stuff, and I'll be passionat about it, too!
--- Quote from: DragonFire on October 15, 2009, 01:15:29 AM ---The problem with all those characters, and the women in general in those books, is the ultra massive sense of entitlement they carry around, and the fact they consider men to be beneath them.
Jordan claims he was aiming to write 'strong' women, and a culture that had it's gender revolution so long ago that it's not longer even relevant...but I think he was wide of the mark in both cases.
Egwene is all the things you mentioned...but she's also stuck up, and borderline misandrist.
There are multiple examples, but the biggest one I can see is that almost all the female channelers, at some point, use their power to impress upon someone (usually a man) that they are stronger.
That's abuse, right there....
I don't consider them strong women....I consider them sad stereotypes.
--- End quote ---
I can see how you'd think that. But as a woman who is in an environment where chauvanism and "southern gentleness" are interchangable, the world RJ's women get to live is friggin' fun to visit.
Like I said earlier, people are people, they're good AND bad. And power, in reality, is always abused, even by people who don't do it with bad intentions.
I'd say that Jordan is the only writer I've read who truly created his world so that females are the stronger sex or at the least equals. They may feel entitled, but I have yet to meet a man who doesn't also think so. May be my geographical location has something to do with that, or it may be generational. Either way.... I honestly think that your complaints of women are directly relatable to my current complaints with our pseudo-gender-equal-society males.
Shecky:
--- Quote from: Aludra on October 15, 2009, 07:52:03 PM ---I can see how you'd think that. But as a woman who is in an environment where chauvanism and "southern gentleness" are interchangable, the world RJ's women get to live is friggin' fun to visit.
Like I said earlier, people are people, they're good AND bad. And power, in reality, is always abused, even by people who don't do it with bad intentions.
I'd say that Jordan is the only writer I've read who truly created his world so that females are the stronger sex or at the least equals. They may feel entitled, but I have yet to meet a man who doesn't also think so. May be my geographical location has something to do with that, or it may be generational. Either way.... I honestly think that your complaints of women are directly relatable to my current complaints with our pseudo-gender-equal-society males.
--- End quote ---
I'm sorry; could you be more explicit with regards to the "interchangeability" between chauvinism and "southern gentleness", as well as your geographical location and "pseudo-gender-equal-society males"? You've left too much unsaid for me to determine what you're saying about whom.
Starbeam:
She's in Dallas, Texas. From that point, I can kinda see what she's getting at.
DragonFire:
--- Quote from: Aludra on October 15, 2009, 07:52:03 PM ---I can see how you'd think that. But as a woman who is in an environment where chauvanism and "southern gentleness" are interchangable, the world RJ's women get to live is friggin' fun to visit.
--- End quote ---
Really?
You WANT to be like that?
You want to be as closeminded and gender biased as the men who treat you that way?
Cause, in my opinion, that's what RJ's women are like.
Look at the scene in CoS, where Nyn and Elayne have to apologise to Mat, about the way they treated him in the Stone, when he busted them out.
Nyn throws a tantrum worthy of a freaking child to avoid apologising to a man....she hates apologising to women, too, but she does it without the massive display when she's forced to it.
The constant belittling of men, the constant anger when a man does anything that may possibly be misinterpreted(and consistently is) and then berating the men who actually do show up to pull their asses off the fire when they can't do it themselves.
And that's 'fun to visit'??
--- Quote from: Aludra on October 15, 2009, 07:52:03 PM ---
Like I said earlier, people are people, they're good AND bad. And power, in reality, is always abused, even by people who don't do it with bad intentions.
--- End quote ---
Agreed....but an entire gender all doing the same thing?
Come on...that's just not likely, is it?
--- Quote from: Aludra on October 15, 2009, 07:52:03 PM ---
I'd say that Jordan is the only writer I've read who truly created his world so that females are the stronger sex or at the least equals.
--- End quote ---
The females are 'stronger' only becasue the males can no longer channel....what they should be, what he set his world up to be, is equals...each contributing something different to society.
--- Quote from: Aludra on October 15, 2009, 07:52:03 PM ---
They may feel entitled, but I have yet to meet a man who doesn't also think so.
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Hey, let's not bring the real world into a discussion of a fictional world...cause I can give plenty of examples of abusive, entitled women in the real world too.
We were talking about how RJ portrayed women, NOT what men do in the real world.
--- Quote from: Aludra on October 15, 2009, 07:52:03 PM ---
May be my geographical location has something to do with that, or it may be generational. Either way.... I honestly think that your complaints of women are directly relatable to my current complaints with our pseudo-gender-equal-society males.
--- End quote ---
fictional women.
In a fiction book.
NOT real world.
belial.1980:
Thanks everyone for your input. So it looks like the crux of the issue is that any character, male or female, should have:
1) Motivation to do what they do.
2) Consistency.
LIke I sad before, I really don't think in terms of "this character is a man/woman so he/she will think and act this way..." I try to delve into what's important to this character and give them a reason to be in the story. From there I try to add color with quirks, character traits, unique expressions or idioms, etc. to add flavor. Or sometimes I do the reverse, starting off with the inital image then digging deeper and finding out what they're like inside.
This question seemed to stir a pretty decent buzz LOL. Any other thoughts?
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