McAnally's (The Community Pub) > Author Craft
Classic Magical School Drama all F&$#%d Up
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--- Quote from: Arbco on April 25, 2009, 05:21:07 PM ---What if your MC was not the story hero?" How different would the Other Harry books have been if it was from the point of view from Ron. Or Neville. Or even Crab.
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or Malfoy... Id read the hell out of that, from the antagonist pov 8)
Hoyled:
I very much like the concept of a non hero viewpoint. One of my own story concepts is to invert the role of the classic sword and horse fantasy by turning the innocent insert peasent history here kid into the worlds worst nightmare. Anyway, try for an unexpected role for your character if you want to do something differnt with the magic school setting.
Lanodantheon:
--- Quote from: belial.1980 on April 22, 2009, 07:02:16 PM ---Bildungsroman?
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School-based coming of age story. Older than dirt.
--- Quote from: belial.1980 on April 22, 2009, 07:02:16 PM ---Really interesting premise. I like it, but had some questions about how it works. Are these nations actual, geographical locations? How did they come to be? Are they a recent invention, or are they routed in antiquity? (If this is the case, you might need to build an alternate Earth with it's own history. That would be a fun and interesting challenge in itself.) How do they interact with mundane nations? What's to prevent a mundane nation from annexing them? Likewise, what's to prevent one of the countries from taking over a mundane nation with minimal magical defense? Or do the mundane nations have their own magical armies or security forces?
From what you've described, I envision the AP nations as the heavy hitters that basically keep things in check. Is this right? IE, the US and North Korea have nukes, but the AP nations can call on Cthulu or someone in that league to lay down the law?
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A lot of the details of the Allied Nations are still in the design phase. I'm following the, "Outside In" approach to world building. That is, I started with the big picture and am now getting more specific. For example I started with the idea of The Allied Powers, that an actual magical world wouldn't have an end-all-be-all White Council that encompasses everything but a collection of different nations. It also follows the design philosophy that there is always more than one way to do things.
In the world of my story, the world of Mundane humans(The world in which we live) and the world of magic have been magically segregated for a long time. There is a magical apparatus in place(The Great Wall of China of Magic basically) that automates the Men in Black style procedures of concealing the 2 worlds from each other. When the MC's magical power finally manifest, this apparatus filters him out gradually. When the MC is "Filtered Out" he goes to school like normal at first but then no one recognizes him. Then, people stop noticing him altogether until the things that are allowed to go bump in the shadows of the Mundane World show up to eat him.
This Light World/Dark World segregation has existed for over 2 milennia, but the exact physics don't matter at this point in development. The segregation though is not another culture evolving in a vacuum. Even with memories removed, the new magic users bring their culture and technology with them. The filtering is far from perfect and does let some things slip through. Also, I have designed that the currency for the Magical World is simply Mundane currency. My brother proposed the idea to me that it would be cool if the White Councilesque bookworms in the Hermetic Order of Alchemists had a line of credit in American banks.
The Allied Nations themselves are a collection of both geographic collectives of people and groups of people united only by ideology. Some of the nations are actually the remnants of fallen cultures, religions and military orders that have themselves been magically filtered out of The Mundane World and relegated to history books and popular culture.
These Lost Nations have since modernized slightly in terms of appearance, language and feel but are mostly unchanged from the way they originally were. That way I can have a Neo-Spartan scout disguised as a street urchin, a god-tapping Praetorian in Kevlar and a Poor Fellow-Soldier of Christ and The Temple of Solomon in an Armani suit.
--- Quote from: belial.1980 on April 22, 2009, 07:02:16 PM ---What are the MCs motivations for attending? What happens when he becomes a member of one of these magical nations? Does he eschew his US citizenship? How does he feel about that?
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When the MC crossed over, he started to forget most of his past since the magical segregation goes both ways. He goes there so he can get answers and because he's got maigcal powers and he wants to learn to use them.
--- Quote from: belial.1980 on April 22, 2009, 07:02:16 PM ---How is this implemented? Is is part of the training? Is mindwashing used? If not, there has got to be some serious propoganda involved.
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--- Quote from: belial.1980 on April 22, 2009, 07:02:16 PM ---This is an important question that you must ask yourself: Do you really want to deconstruct the idea of Harry Potter, or do you want to give Harry a face lift?
You can throw in adult situations, add seedy characters, and add a distinctly American feel, but in the the end, these things are all dressing and variations on a theme. From what you've said, I feel that you really want to do a truly deconstructive piece.
Themes like "love conquers all" and "the end doesn't always justify the means", etc. are pretty prevalent in HP. (not always spelled out as such, but they're usually in there in some form or another.) In fact, many, many authors incorporate this kind of thing into their stories, and the public at large usually eats it up, because we want an escape from the real world which is painted in shades of gray.
Alan Moore truly deconstructed the superhero genre with Watchmen, just like Michael Moorcock deconstructe the fantasy hero with Elric. There're plenty of others, but these ared the two that I'm most familiar with and can recommends. I highly suggest taking some cues from these writers, and dissecting their methods.
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That is a fair criticism. The adult situations can be just window dressing. However, in this case they relate to my perception that Fantasy isn't about what isn't real but about what is real.
One of my main problems with HP isn't the themes, like misuse of power, morality of actions, etc. It's the execution. Harry was always told what was right on a silver platter. He never had a situation where he is presented with 2 equally valid points of view and is forced to choose one. Instead there are black hats and white hats and the decision is already set in stone. Harry's moral fortitude is never truly in question even with the spell-slinging near-death incident in Half-Blood Prince where his opponent is only severly injured.
I writing a story where the MC agrees with the philosophy presented to him by the Antagonist to a point, where he lets the bad guy live but gets shot in the back for it and when he finally does kill the bad guy, the entire community is divided on the morality of his actions.
--- Quote from: belial.1980 on April 22, 2009, 07:02:16 PM ---I've got a suggestion for the house structure. Maybe the houses are student formed groups that seek to emulate a specific country or power they hope to be sponsored by.
For example, a certain group really likes a certain AP nation, so they seek to emulate it's culture, principals, etc. This could be a good way to garner attention from recruiters and make connections with liasons from that country. (Basically become suckups and cheerleaders)
If two countries are at odds then the houses that emulate them are likely to be as well. Since these houses aren't official, nothing bars a country from sponsoring someone in a house that doesn't emulate them, but these little sychophant houses make good recruiting pools.
Since your MC decides to start his own house, he decides to try and get sponsorship from his own merit, rather than by reputation of an existing house. Just an idea.
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That's better than what I had. It would also be like the Model UN they made us do in Elementary school(The one that never works).
Lanodantheon:
double post
--- Quote from: thausgt on April 25, 2009, 06:14:50 AM ---
Good point. I suggest doing a bit of research into how cultures affect food service in general, as well as specifically how students are expected to stay fed. There really aren't any possible alternatives to "service at the table" or "cafeteria-style", since the school would be responsible for making sure that students whose families cannot provide them with nutritious food won't go hungry. The food might look and taste like cardboard, but it will still meet minimum nutritional standards. But please experiment!
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In my D&D game, we always have a wizard who uses Presidigitation to make food taste great. We always make a joke that we never know what she puts in the food sge cooks for us and that we don't want to know.
Putting that experience into a Magic school also brings to mind The Last SUpper scene of The Matrix with the bowl of snot. If they served gruel like, I could imagine the MC wanting a soft boiled egg for breakfast. Even if magic made the gruel taste like cocaine-laden chocolate turkey I'd still want a normal, soft-boiled egg for breakfast.
--- Quote from: thausgt on April 25, 2009, 06:14:50 AM ---The "hidden cultures" of magic-users will change these cultures, too; extremely racist groups, for example, might assert their superiority by coming up with cuisine that cannot be consumed (or "properly enjoyed") without magic (e.g.: Red Dwarf's "telekinetic wine").
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Okay, I cam see that. A bit ectreme but I can see that.
--- Quote from: thausgt on April 25, 2009, 06:14:50 AM ---Exactly! Just because he has suddenly discovered that the "laws" of physics have suddenly become "very flexible suggestions" does not change his reaction to other elements of the 'supernatural' world. I'd suggest exploring the situation in the other direction, as well: The Other Harry got a couple of chances to demonstrate his familiarity with "non-magical" culture (explaining the British monetary system), so be sure to toss in a couple of examples for your MC. "That's the Batman symbol. He's a fictional character, not a bat-worshiping cult leader!"
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I like too. I'll use that since I still haven't put together a good list of feasible things he could still have on his person when he goes to the Magic world. All I know is that he was prepping for a debate tournament, has a few changes of clothes, his laptop computer(which he's afraid to use), his homemade rosary of knicknacks relating to magic assembled in Hot Topic and Walmart and his Baseball Bat.
--- Quote from: thausgt on April 25, 2009, 06:14:50 AM ---
Another contrast between American and British school culture, f.y.i. My fiancee, who spent most of her high school career at the American School in London, says that the Brits take the drama departments very seriously. Arguably, The Other Harry's books did that part of British culture a disservice. I mean, this is where good ol' Bill Shakespeare came from, after all... ;D
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come to think of it, theatre in the magical world would be a tough gig. Special effects are fine but how would they do it? I could see a revival of both old-fashioned Shakspearean theatre and stage magic. Hell, Harry Dresden is on the card in one part of The Prestige after all....
--- Quote from: thausgt on April 25, 2009, 06:14:50 AM ---
I like having a division between the "talented" and the "studious". It's a good screen on which to project the conflicts between "us" and "them". The differences seem oh-so-important to those who don't know any better... and can easily last for the remainder of their lives if they don't have their noses rubbed in how stupid the conflict actually is.
For your magical cultures, you might also consider contrasting the "history buffs" with the "moderns". The Ancients, after all, made the modern world and all the magic in it possible. However, the modern age has produced wonders beyond the comprehension of the dusty old dead folks. So it goes...
I submit that the Two Harry's "mundane" qualities are a necessary "imperfection" in their characters. They are the readers' point of entry into their respective supernatural worlds, meaning that they ask the questions or make the connections that readers cannot... and in Dresden's case, making the jokes that the readers want to.
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We're on the same page....
--- Quote from: thausgt on April 25, 2009, 06:14:50 AM ---
Good ideas! One point for consideration: while these problems are present in virtually every school, they manifest in different degrees. Not that a ritzy prep-school is completely free from the taint of gangs, nor that there are no stalkers in the bottom-rung inner-city school. But there's no way to explore these problems in a 'one-size-fits-all' fashion. You're going to have to decide on the general socio-economic level of the school itself, at least in the context of the magical society you've built, and that choice will affect how you explore these issues.
"Date Rape Charm" would lead to detectors, which would encourage those who make money off of the charms to figure ways around the detectors, which would lead to the detectors offering upgrades, and so on. And don't forget those who can't afford the very best of either: would-be rapists who buy cut-rate charms could get caught, and victims might not be as safe as they think they are. Clever would-be rapists might also shell out for countermeasure-detectors, to reveal which of the potential victims have no defenses. It's a classic arms race on a much more personal scale.
Cultural factors: people who purchase the charms might be subject to scorn ("You can't get a date without help?!? Loser!"), and victims-to-be might be discouraged from purchasing appropriate defenses ("Good boys and girls don't have to worry about such things. Yes, you'll be a social pariah, but it's better to be good than... ugh... popular.")
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My least favorite part of Harry Potter was the"Anti-Cheating Quills" and the "Anti-Boy Charm" on girls' dorms.
Make anti anything spells and humans will make better counter spells. I know one of my sub-plots will be the oh-so-infamous trope of getting into the girl's locker room. The planned plot turns it upside down and leaves a bad taste in your mouth afterwards.
One other thing, if problems are headed of at the pass in literature before they are even problems, they cease to be interesting. I like a world that still has gaps in the system.
--- Quote ---I submit that the most serious challenge you've handed yourself is the notion that the school has no limit on age. A fifteen-year-old magic-user with one year of experience in magic will get spanked, far more often than not, by a thirty-year old non-magic user with fifteen years' experience in manipulating people.
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The no-Limit on age isn't difficult for me at all. I go college where my lefthand classmate has a wife, 2 kids and no degree, my right hand class mate is younger than me and my Data Structures Prof is a bigger nerd than me.
The main reason for the no age-limit is my design that magical learning isn't standardized. Some people learn in 1 year what others can't comprehend in 30. It also is response to the fact that in HP everyone is exactly the same age and that bothers the hell outta me.
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two quick things:
int he great Wall, how does it affect things geographically? By that I mean, when he fades out does he find himself in whole new magical land, an empty city, or in a crowd that cant see or hear him (and if it goes both ways can he see or hear them, if not how do they keep from running into each other, etc). If there is still communication (for business, credit etc) how is that accomplished, how do you keep the bank from forgetting that you have an account? Whatever it is, I highly recommend you read Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman which has a very similar premise of a magical world coexisting and when you get caught up in it you are lost to the real world, where everyone forgets you and most times cant even notice you.
In the school, if everyone is a different age and everyone gets a different sort of curriculum for their education, how are those curriculums designed/assigned? Is an upperclassman assigned as a mentor to help chart your path? Do you just sign up for classes on a big registration day with pre-made curriculums like most colleges? Or maybe you get subjected to a big series of placement exams and are pigeonholed into whatever area/vocation/skill level they decide you are? If its the last one, take a look at Sky High, a delightfully bad movie about a high school that teaches superpowered kids to be superheroes, and on the first day you ore sorted into hero or sidekick classes/castes.
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